SOME PERSPECTIVE: a “BIG WIN” for AXANAR or “GAME OVER”? (Part 2)

In Part 1, I outlined the dire situation that ALEC PETERS and AXANAR PRODUCTIONS were in regarding INDUSTRY STUDIOS.  The dream had turned into a nightmare as money was running out.  A new Indiegogo campaign had pretty much stalled far short of its goal, and it was looking like all the work and donor money that had gone into creating a very impressive film studio and really awesome sets might end up having all been in vain.

It was a dark time, and I’ll admit that I was actually way more defeatist than Alec.  But Alec couldn’t afford the luxury of self-pity or panic.  He had a problem to solve, and he wasn’t giving up.  In fact, Alec actually did his best to lift my spirits as he tried to navigate a course forward…despite the odds stacking up against him.  Say whatever else you want about the guy, but you can’t deny that he’s a fighter.  Alec refuses to go gently into any good night.  Where other people (including me) would have thrown in the towel and given up long ago, Alec Peters has always pushed on.

And so Alec went to talk to his landlord and see what, if anything, could be worked out.  The two men have had a very cordial and positive relationship over the past two and a half years, and Alec has been a model tenant.  In fact, his improvements to the warehouse did not go unnoticed.  Sure, the walls of the sound stage area still need to be soundproofed (the floor already is), but that’s pretty much it.  For all intents and purposes, Industry Studios is a top tier film production facility with offices, a film-editing suite with cutting-edge software and equipment, dressing rooms, a lounge/conference area, prop/costume storage area, reception area, a three-layer floor that set pieces can be bolted to, a custom high-capacity power system, a lighting grid covering the entire ceiling, and a huge corner green screen cyclorama.  Donors can at least be assured that their money went into what the Kickstarter said it would.

You might not be aware that Valencia, CA is trying very hard to develop itself into a “Hollywood North” that’s considerably closer than Canada.  Located just within the “30-mile limit” (a circle surrounding Los Angeles beyond which a production has to pay travel and lodging costs to union laborers and actors), Valencia and neighboring Santa Clarita offer cheaper rents than areas closer to L.A., along with access to similar resources.  In fact, Industry Studios is just across the 5 Freeway from Santa Clarita Studios—barely a mile and a half away, in fact—and the latter facility has hosted productions that include Fast and the Furious 7, Django Unchained, the new Planet of the Apes film, CSI, and hundreds more on their dozen-or-so sound stages.  And with robust TV production booming in Los Angeles, there is currently a sound stage shortage affecting the area.

So perhaps it wasn’t so surprising when Alec’s landlord offered to keep the studio improvements that Alec had made to the warehouse and even to potentially reimburse him for them!  And in addition to that, the landlord is also offering Alec the following (truly amazing) deal:

  • Alec gets to break his lease eight months early with no financial or legal penalty.
  • Industry Studios will continue on with the same name and identity (possibly even some of the same people) and honor its commitment to the fan productions Personal Space and Cholo vs. Vampires to use the facility.
  • When the time comes to film Axanar, Alec and his team will be able to make use of Industry Studios (and that giant green screen and lighting grid).

It’s certainly a big win for the landlord.  Not only does he have empty industrial warehouse space for rent (his main business), but he’s suddenly now in the sound stage rental business, as well, with a fantastic facility to offer.  His start-up costs are relatively minimal, and it’s pretty much ready to rent immediately…no significant build-out time (maybe a week or two to soundproof the walls).

Is it a big win for Alec?  Well, not entirely…at least in my opinion.  A “big win” would have been a $200K (instead of $20K) Indiegogo campaign that would have allowed the rent to be paid on Industry Studios for another year, the soundproofing to be completed by Alec, and the sets not to need to be moved or destroyed.  So no, it wasn’t a “big win.”  Kobayshi Maru scenarios rarely allow for that kind of outcome.

On the other hand, compared to the miserably bleak outlook of just two weeks ago, we’re now in a place that I never dreamed possible.  And I wonder if even Alec thought he’d get such a good deal.  Yes, he has to abandon the facility.  But that was going to happen no matter what.  However, assuming that the deal Alec reported is finalized, not only will Industry Studios continue to exist, but he’ll still get to use it to film Axanar.  And the two other fan productions he partnered with, Personal Space and Cholo vs. Vampires, will also get to use the facility.  Add to this that not only is Alec off the hook for the last eight months of rent, but he has the potential to get partially reimbursed for the hundreds of thousands of donor dollars put into studio improvements.

Now, this doesn’t necessarily mean that Alec will receive a six-figure check from his landlord.  There are many ways that this deal could be structured.  However, any reimbursement at all is better than no reimbursement, which was the situation just last month.  And any money recovered from the cost of studio build-outs can potentially be applied to the cost of production for the 2-part Axanar fan film.  Since Alec isn’t allowed to crowd-fund for its production, and the Indiegogo was never earmarked for production costs, money for Axanar could only come from private donations…and there was no guarantee that enough would be raised from that method to make the Axanar 2-parter look as good as its predecessor.  So any reimbursement, whether a lot or just a little, falls on the plus side.

That just leaves the sets.  And to be honest, there’s no way to spin that situation into a “win.”  But it’s not a total loss either.  It’s just making the best decision in a no-win scenario.  The sets can’t stay where they are (and that would have been the “win”).  But without a successful Indiegogo campaign, the sets were going to have to be moved no matter what.  The only question left is where.

Two weeks ago, I would have said “storage”…and I did.  But now there’s potentially more money to work with—to pay for the move and for several months of a lower rent to set up a more “humble” studio…much like the ones Star Trek: New Voyages and Star Trek Continues have.  Neither is state of the art, but both got the job done.  Maybe there’s some hope left after all.  Maybe not.  But isn’t it at least worth a try?

Of course, it’s not my decision to make (never was), but neither will it be entirely Alec’s.  With the Indiegogo campaign in its final two weeks, Alec is letting the donors vote on their preference for how to proceed.  Obviously, continuing to pay the rent on Industry Studios (as outlined in the original campaign description) is now off the table.  And donors who want a refund of their contribution will be granted one.  But for those sticking with the project, they will be presented with options for basic storage and also for setting up a lower-rent “no-frills” studio in another part of the country (likely Atlanta).  We’ll see what they say.

Is it optimal?  Is this what we all signed up for at the starting line?  Hardly.  We didn’t sign up for a lawsuit either, but stuff happens.  We play the cards we are dealt.  Sometimes we play the cards well, sometimes not so well.

So, no, this is not a “big win” for Axanar.  And it’s not “game over” either.  In fact, it’s not really a “game” at all—to be won or lost, with fans rooting for and against the home team.  It’s a business, with real people involved who are trying to make smart, measured decisions that will keep the business alive and allow it to grow in the best way it can.

Or, if you’d prefer that I provide a relevant Star Trek quote, I see the situation pretty much like this…

61 thoughts on “SOME PERSPECTIVE: a “BIG WIN” for AXANAR or “GAME OVER”? (Part 2)”

  1. As you say, life happens. I have supported and continue to support the Axanar vision. That the vision has changed over the years is also part of life. I’m glad that Alec Peters continues to fight the good fight and I look forward to the completion of the project.

  2. Thanks for the clear-eyed and balanced update.

    I might reach for mock-Latin instead of Trek in this situation: “Illegitimi non carborundum”

  3. From the April 13th Atlanta Journal Constitution:
    “Netflix content officer Ted Sarandos told The Wrap earlier this week that his company is going to cut back on chasing tax credits in other states and countries and focus on “building infrastructure” in Los Angeles.

    “I personally believe instead of investing in tax incentives that we should invest in infrastructure,” Sarandos said in an interview at Netflix’s sleek new Hollywood offices, home to roughly a thousand employees, as the company continues its explosive growth. Moving productions to benefit from tax incentives, common practice in the industry, “is very tough on families and eventually it grinds on the talent,” Sarandos said.
    So there are always opportunities that will present themselves.

  4. Exactly what sets is AP talking about moving? I have only seen an unfinished portion of the bridge and part of the transporter room; are there more?

    1. Garth’s quarters. Partial Klingon bridge. Transporter. Turbolift. There might be other set pieces, but I can’t remember at the moment. The bridge is the biggie, though.

  5. That it was tried at all.. Axanar.. is a real tribute to the Original series produced by Gene Roddenberry. That it could ramp up 50 years later.. is nothing short of amazing.

    Truth first I saw Axanar I wasn’t thinking CBS/Paramount would even care.. I was mote thing the History Channel or Discovery Channel would be the ones to take legal issue with borrowing their format.

    It would have been really cool if one of those cable channel.. even Netflix, had busted out and decided to make an offer for a limited run series, and given the kids a chance. Then rights holders would have been off the hook for the 50th Anniversary and who knows how things might have turned out.

    I’m getting the feeling that certain egos at CBS or Paramount are somewhat driving the franchise into the ground.. and well that happens when a right holder isn’t a good steward. I still think it will be sold when the studio get close to changing hands in the near future.. its governance can’t continue like its been lately.. ST:Discovery really worries me.. I think it could leave a stain that might stick around for a generation or so and leave the real ST to novels or fan fiction.

    Eh well..

  6. I’m a little slow on the uptake sometimes…it took both Alec’s description and your “explaining” for it all to sink in. Thanks! I appreciate your help…a good read as always. I agree, we all wished for something different, but stuff happens. Axanar has been an interesting “learning experience” about both the industry and Trek, in general. I’m thankful for that and more than willing to stick through to the end…whatever it happens to be.

    I hate to say it, but I wonder whether the current political climate has some folks a little reluctant to spend extra funds, due to the uncertainty of all the strangeness. (That’s also been a learning experience, but one I could have done without!)

    1. Crowd-funding campaigns began to lose a little steam in 2015, a year before the election…and several months before the lawsuit. I think the shine was simply starting to come off the silver a bit.

      1. Jonathan, not at all. What was happening was there was a lot of projects asking for fans money and the fans can only donate a certain amount. When you see a fundraiser raise $250k and then turn around and do another one to continue the work it’s theoretically reasonable. Yet when that one does 500-600k and the project throws yet ANOTHER one people start to think somethings not right.

        It just really boils down to people being treated respectfully..

  7. As I said yesterday Cholos v Vampires Kickstarter failed to get the money and ended last November. I haven’t been able to find anything on the project that shows they are still planing a production.

  8. Alec said the first KS was for the studio buildout, but the buildout isn’t finished?

    Alec said they had $267,000 in the bank (from IGG) when the lawsuit hit to begin filming Axanar within the next 30 days.

    They were going to film Axanar in an unfinished studio? Wasn’t the studio the whole point of the first KS? If so, why wasn’t it finished?

    1. All that was missing was the sound proofing of the walls, which wasn’t a significant problem, as the location is fairly quiet (in the back of the industrial complex) and the floor and elephant door were already soundproofed and absorb a lot of the ambient sound anyway. The inside is pretty quiet.

  9. Is the equipment in the film editing suite leased or owned? If it’s leased, did the landlord agree to take over payments? If it’s owned, what is the value of the equipment and what did the landlord pay for it? Or is the equipment part of the rent forgiveness?

    If/when Alec receives compensation for the studio assets (in whatever form that may take – cash, rent forgiveness, or something else) will that compensation be disclosed to the donors?

          1. I am regularly amazed by your even-keeled response to the comments you receive from some folks. Well done that man!

      1. Well, I can’t ask the right person because he bans “haters” who ask uncomfortable questions so maybe YOU can ask him this important question – “Is Alec going to be compensated for the assets of Industry Studios and will the donors be informed?” I texted him that question and he said I was a liar who spread lies about him…sigh.

        1. Well, if Alec doesn’t want to deal with you, Jo, I’m not sure why I should. However, I know only what Alec himself has written in his blog. There will be some form of reimbursement for the improvements made at the Industry Studios location to turn it from a warehouse into a studio. Now, does this count things like carpeting and the power system, which are likely “fixed to the structure” and can’t be taken along? I don’t know. Obviously, Alec could easily pack up the “removable” items like the cameras and hardware and lights. And the lighting grid could be taken down from the ceiling if he wanted, but one would assume it won’t be with the current deal. As for how the agreement will be structured and when and/or if the donors will be informed, that’s also not information I have at the moment.

          Now, if I might ask you a question, Jo: why do you care? Whatever Alec’s answer might be, how does it affect you personally? Obviously, as a donor, I’m sure you’re curious. But at this point, all of the donor money has been spent, and Alec shared the expense summary publicly. Whether you are happy about the results is irrelevant. Things happened. Personally, I’m not happy that the $75 I donated to the “Captain Pike” fan film seems to have disappeared (how come no one ever mentions that project??), and I kinda wish “Pacific 201” and Starship Farragut’s last episode “The Homecoming” would get finished already (I donated to both of those, as well). But I don’t harp on it and demand updates and explanations every few weeks or even months. I donated my money, and that’s that. It was a risk on my part, of course, as you never know what’s going to happen with a fan film. I’m trusting Eric Henry to finish “Pacific 201” and John Broughton to finish “The Homecoming.” As for the “Pike” fan film…I’ve kinda given up hope on that one.

          But at this point, Jo, I really don’t understand why you’re so insistent on having this information. How will it impact your life in any way other than potentially giving you something else to criticize Alec Peters for…regardless of the answers, most likely?

          1. I’ll chime in here and say, “Nope.”

            Alec Peters reputation as a businessman with… “less-than upright ethical standards” I think is the best way to describe him in this venue, should be continuously scrutinized. Firstly, to make sure he is watched to be on the “up and up” (I would argue he has proven not to be), and secondly to warn others of his past track record.

            Many of us have been here well prior to the lawsuit. I was concerned when I noticed Axanar’s promised filming dates began being pushed back by months and was always “30 days from filming”. I was concerned by the merchandising of Trek derivative products being sold. I was concerned of their claims of being “an independent Star Trek production”.

            Then I discovered this wasn’t Mr. Peters’ first rodeo. His Propworx company ran about the same, including the formation of CSS, the shipping service he claimed he knew nothing about, that gauged his customers and was ultimately discovered to be his all along. And then running off with hundreds of thousands of MGM’s props.

            Nope. I care. I care that there is a wolf in the fold of Star Trek fandom, and fandom at large. I care that Axanar is another of this man’s “Wash, Rinse, Repeat” attempts at grabbing money and producing nothing in return. And I will continue to be concerned until everyone knows and he is finally gone from here.

            So my question to you, Mr. Lane, is why YOU continuously care to DEFEND Mr. Peters when a simple Google search brings up all of these easy-to-find facts?

          2. “So my question to you, Mr. Lane, is why YOU continuously care to DEFEND Mr. Peters when a simple Google search brings up all of these easy-to-find facts?”

            I like the guy and want to see the rest of Axanar.

          3. Wow – break out the ad hominem attacks when simple questions are asked.

            Alec “doesn’t want to deal with me” because he, once AGAIN, doesn’t want to release detailed accounting of all that Trek fan money. Both of you want me to “go away” for asking the obvious – “where is the money?”

            Why do I care, you ask? Because of repeated scenarios exactly like this – someone inquires about money and Alec blows up.

            It’s a simple and logical question, one the donors deserve to have an answer to:

            “How much is Alec going to be compensated for the assets of Industry Studios and what will that money be used for?”

            Alec himself stated that the money from the studio assets belongs to the donors. I’m a donor. I care. If Alec is going to be given a large check for the studio assets, it’s basically a refund – of my money, and thousands of other donors. We have a right to know where it’s going.

            I also care about the donors who are afraid to speak out publicly because they don’t want to be attacked by the “Axanar Marines”. There have been people who have suffered real harm in this whole debacle, yet you all want to kick them and make fun of them – so then they don’t complain.

            Alec plays Whack-A-Mole with donors who have legitimate questions. This strategy needs to be made public, so potential donors who are doing due diligence on Alec Peters and Axanar are forewarned: if you give money, don’t ask for accountability because you will be shouted out of the room by Alec’s goon squad.

            I like to think the “detractors'” posts are like warning beacons for future donors. If people read all about this disaster and still donate, then great – at least they have their eyes wide open.

  10. Nice review as always sir. Just a thought for Alec though, the Dallas Ft. Worth area also have some studios to use.

    1. Atlanta has more film production. I think part of this equation is to have access to both skilled professionals in the area and other productions that might want to make use of the generic sets.

      1. The thing is Jonathan everybody well mostly everybody goes to Atlanta if they want to film a movie or a Tv show .

        I talked to one of the guests stars who appeared on a episode of Sleepy Hollow years ago at the Pensacola Paracon and he told me straight me that due that both Florida { which is where I live by the way and California are drying up . } The thing with Atlanta is it has more tax incentives which make it more appealing to people to film there .

        1. L.A. is aware of that and has begun fighting back, which is why TV production is flourishing here and we remain the number one film-making market in North America. However, other cities like Atlanta and Toronto are doing their darnedest to knock us out of that first place position. It keeps everyone on their toes!

  11. Let’s see here, “Alec gets to break his lease eight months early with no financial or legal penalty.” Considering Alec has literally used over two hundred thousand dollars of donor money to enhance the value of the warehouse, breaking the lease 8 months only benefits the landlord who now has much improved property to offer a serious business man. It would be far more costly for the landlord to fight for three months in court and then attempt to force a judgement of the defaulted Industry Studios, one of the benefits to incorporating is that it allows a quick exit when everything caves in!
    Next, Industry Studios will continue on with the same name and identity (possibly even some of the same people) and honor its commitment to the fan productions Personal Space and Cholo vs. Vampires to use the facility. How much weight do you put into this claim? As long as the warehouse sits empty it’s absolutely immaterial what name you want to call it, let’s see we’ve had Ares Studios, Valkyrie, and Industry and nothing occurred with any of them, luckily Alec never invested in branding the building with outside markings, the sign people would have been laughing so hard that the letttering would never had been straight ! When a new tenant leases the warehouse in theee months, the Industry Studios name will fade away into an oblivion. As for Cholo vs Vampires, it’s dead in the water and isn’t going anywhere, and Personal Space will be out now without Alec stroking them a no cost deal just for Industry Studios PR !
    Finally, “when the time comes to film Axanar, Alec and his team will be able to make use of Industry Studios (and that giant green screen and lighting grid).
    No doubt the landlord would be happy to rent them the warehouse to shoot their fan film, however that’s assuming nobody has rented the warehouse in the next couple of months. Once the new tenant takes over the lease, that’ll be the final gasp for air for Industry Studios in Valencia ! The new tenant might keep some or all of the infrastructure, however the wooden floor will probably get tossed !
    The final curtain is about to close and the show never even went on – sad !

  12. Hello, Mr. Lane.
    As has often the case in the past I have once again enjoyed reading your style of writing!

    This is interesting. Do you have leads I can follow to find information on this? “You might not be aware that Valencia, CA is trying very hard to develop itself into a “Hollywood North”

    I have found general confirmation of this though: “Valencia and neighboring Santa Clarita offer cheaper rents than areas closer to L.A., along with access to similar resources.”

    I am also not aware of the following. Do you have leads I can follow to find information this? “And with robust TV production booming in Los Angeles, there is currently a sound stage shortage affecting the area.”

    I am unclear on this. “So perhaps it wasn’t so surprising when Alec’s landlord offered to keep the studio improvements that Alec had made to the warehouse”. Is that to indicate if the landlord not offered to keep the improvements the lease would have require the tenant to remove of all them and restore the entire facility to its original state?

    Thank you from your fellow Star Trek fan. I hold great respect for your advocacy supporting this production.

    1. I’ve known about Santa Clarita and Valencia for many years, ever since Foundation Imagining (I had friends there) moved to Valencia in the late 1990s. Also, I’ve had conversations with Alec Peters and Rob Burnett about the push for “Hollywood North” (my term; Vancouver is the “real” Hollywood North) to be the Valencia/Santa Clarita area. So I don’t have a lot of articles on that–although I could try to look.

      As for the source of the sound stage shortage information, that came from the following article:

      http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2017/04/12/l-a-s-on-location-film-production-plummeted-in-q1.html

      Here’s the actual quote: “FilmL.A. blamed a number of factors for the decrease in feature film shoot days, including a shortage of sound stages thanks to robust TV production around town…”

      As for your last question, while I don’t know the details, I believe that Alec has the right as tenant to take with him any improvements that are removable…such as the lighting grid. Not sure about the carpeting, but my guess is that would stay.

      Thanks for saying all the nice things. 🙂

  13. Since Netflix or other cable channels don’t own Trek Netflix probably pays a pretty penny to broadcast Trek.

    While Prelude was good, you have to remember that not long after Prelude Axanar and the folks who worked on it were for the most part gone. And there is no way IMHO the 4 minute walk and talk even came close to Prelude, other than Tobias’ work.

  14. Alec and Rob talked to the guy who provided editing equipment in a podcast not too long ago. He was a fan of Axanar.

    1. Jonathan it was in Podcast 41, Basically, You Guys Built V’ger, guest Larry O’Connor and Bing Biley. Mr. O’Connor donated $20,000.00 in equipment he is connected to, “OWC Digital have made amazing advances in computer hard drive technology by building drive arrays and writing the software to run them. These products allow users to edit large video files without having any freak of the hard drive and OWC’s mana is that they build products and solutions to help people take their creativity farther.” The quote note is from their show notes. Just an FYI, so if you get asked the question again, you’ll have the answer.

      I’ve listened to all the podcasts and knew about when this podcast was aired Dec. 1, 2016, so it didn’t take long to find the information for you.

  15. 90 minutes or 30 minutes, I still very much would like to see the actual Axanar film, for sure – So, I’m glad Alec’s still fighting and trying to keep things afloat here… P 🙂

      1. Sorry to burst your bubble but other adventures have possibilities. Axanar is built on record of broken promises since Prelude. You should have gone audio but then the Axanar team put them as being amateurs. Best of luck

  16. I have seen the question asked here by a few people: Why do you care? The lawsuit is over, why do you care?

    I care because I am a donor, and for the record I’ve never asked anyone at Axanar for a refund. I check the Donor’s Group where we were told the most accurate information would be shared first, but is seems that the most information is being shared in on the Fan Page, when many people have been banned from for asking questions that certain individuals deemed ban worthy. So that lead to groups what pooled information and these individuals were deemed haters and detractors. In the Donor’s Group you get the merchandising side of Axanar for the most part oh there is the rare occasion when something relevant will be posted.

    The question of why do some of you care, why are you so passionate in your feelings? Why do you hate CBS and Paramount so much? Especially when the defense agreed that CBS owned Star Trek. It could be ask why are you so passionate in your support of someone many of you have never met personally? Why do you hate people you’ve never met because they have a differing opinion than you?

    I really hoped Axanar would be a great movie, tell a good story, one of the things I learned in my forty year business career is the person charge is responsible for everything and everything bad. For every success and for every failure, and the most successful of those individuals are the ones who step up and say look I thought this action plan was great, I didn’t see how we could miss with it, I was wrong and I’m sorry, I’m sorry I screwed up and you won’t be getting your usual bonuses this year, I’m sorry our customers so upset and you have to deal with that.

    Never once have I seen anyone from Team Axanar say folks, we obviously made mistakes, we didn’t realize we were, but we’re sorry. We’re sorry we let you down, just please be patient and we’ll do our best to take care of this and would appreciate if you could not make any negative comments against CBS or Paramount while this is going on.

    Now I fully realize some people would have ignored this and gone full bore anti Alec and anti CBS and Paramount but I do have a feeling there would have been a lot less people on both sides the argument. Humans tend to respond positively to I’m sorry, I screwed up, give me a chance to make this better.

    1. Brenda, I couldn’t have said it better – this sums up my feelings about the whole thing exactly. A simple “We’re sorry” would have gone a long way, but instead it was always somebody elses fault. And to this day everybody asking Alec critical questions is on his way to being a hater, detractor or being called stupid for “obviously not having read his latest newsletter, which explains everything”. Just because you read the same Newsletter doesn’t mean you have to agree with it. i personally can do without all the blaming, name calling, semi-funny memes on both sides of the aisle. I also don’t think that Alec or Axanar should take insults quietly – but if you put yourself out there and repeatedly ask people for donations, you should be prepared to answer difficult questions without name calling and without banning people.

      1. Thanks I’ve always found good manners and a willingness to accept your own screw up go a long way in building trust.

      1. Seriously now Jonathan of course he didn’t get a C&D or get sued because he did the right thing and bought a license from CBS. Apparently you missed this:

        Product Details
        Copyright: Standard Copyright License

        Obviously he knows more about getting a copyright license than Alec did.

        1. Nope–just checked. This was never a licensed product. It doesn’t contain the proper wording in the sample (which would have been required on Page 2 or 3). It was intended as a perk to raise money for Starship Farragut, and my old boss John Van Citters would never have allowed any license to be issued for a fan film-related endeavor because it would have implied an endorsement of the fan film itself, which was never licensed because such things weren’t done back then (and still aren’t). Even James Cawley had to end production on New Voyages before turning his studio into a licensed Star Trek set tour.

          Seriously, Rand, ya gotta THINK, man!!! It’s not as hard as you make it out to be. 🙂

  17. Hi Jonathan. Did you ever get to asking Alec those production and financials type questions from a month or so ago? Will we be seeing responses anytime soon? The comments section is closed so cant post a follow up.

    Thanks

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