Jonathan Lane here with a quick introduction. Joshua Irwin is the showrunner and force-of-nature behind the AVALON UNIVERSE fan series, as well as a helper-outer on countless other fan films whose showrunners have requested his assistance. Josh’s skills as a filmmaker come from both film school and a quarter century working in the film industry in Arkansas. So I feel it’s fair to say that, when it comes to producing Star Trek fan films—from writing to directing to editing and everything in between—Josh knows what he’s doing.
With dozens of Star Trek fan films under his belt in various capacities, Josh has seen countless comments posted about his videos on YouTube, both positive and negative—although vastly more of the former than the latter. The irony about the negative comments, however, is that Josh never criticizes the work of any other fan filmmaker, at whatever level.
Sadly, other fans do not share Josh’s discretion when it comes to posting criticisms about his and others’ fan film projects. That’s not to imply that Josh’s work leaves no room for improvement. Josh himself can be extremely self-critical in very practical ways, and he is well aware that constraints on time, money, availability of cast and crew, and resources in general can severely limit what he is able to accomplish and produce. And indeed, Josh is always open to well-thought-out and reasonable constructive critiques of his projects.
However, YouTube provides very little of that. Instead, criticisms posted about Josh’s fan films—much like criticisms posted about most fan films—tend to be drive-by complaints and insults or unsolicited pieces of “friendly advice.”
Recently, Josh posted to Facebook a list of the kinds of criticisms he usually receives and why most of them tend to be pretty worthless. While some constructive critiques are indeed smart and insightful, the following ten types of criticisms are, for the most part, a complete waste of everyone’s time and brain cells. I asked Josh if he’d like to turn his Facebook post into a guest blog, and he happily agreed.
And now, here’s Josh…
Watching Star Trek is one thing. But I feel like making Star Trek fan films has given me an interesting perspective. I laugh hard at the scenes in the Voyager episode “Worst Case Scenario” where Tuvok and Tom Paris spar over how to write the next chapter of Tuvok’s co-opted training program turned holo-novel while constantly enduring the annoying unsolicited feedback of their crew mates.
Each one of them has a fantastic idea (or so they think) on how to make the adventure a little better. My favorite part is when Tuvok overrides the Doctor’s autonomous controls and sends him back to Sickbay after he appears in the Holodeck to give his notes for “improvements and dialogue changes.” It was clear that the writers had fun throwing real-life frustrations into that episode.
One scene that really stands out to me, though, is from the TNG finale “All Good Things.” When Geordi visits Picard at his vineyard, Picard brings up Geordi’s latest novel. “I thought the protagonist was a little too flamboyant…” Picard says. And my thought the last time I watched it was, “Jeez, his friend goes out on a limb to do something creative, and the first words out of Picard’s mouth were a criticism!” I don’t know, maybe he was just taking out his frustrations on Geordi after Data insulted his paintings.
Anyway…
I’ve always believed that creating art, especially filmmaking, is an act of courage. If you produce something and put it out there, you make yourself a target for all kinds of responses. You get the positive ones—those are nice—and the new opportunities—and those are wonderful—and it’s totally worth it.
But there are also the critiques, and the people who get straight-up ugly about what they have to say. And even though the comments on our films tend to be 100:1 positive, the detractions just seem to sting sometimes like a little splinter. It would be easy to simply dismiss the ugly postings as jealousy: “They’re just attacking you because they wish they were the one making the fan film, and insulting you is how they feel better about themselves.” But that’s too simple. Sometimes you do make bad creative choices, and many of times as a filmmaker you make a lot of mistakes. And you must face that.
For me, filmmaking is a process of growth, you learn from the mistakes of the last film, and try to do better with the next one. If I feel the negative feedback is incorrect, sometimes I push back and defend my choices. Commenters don’t like that at all. Many times, they don’t expect you to respond. Sometimes they just want to make a snarky comment, and when you respond they dig in with the standard “I’m just trying to offer constructive criticism, looks like you just can’t take feedback.” I can, but if people have the right to criticize, I feel I have the right to defend my choices. And if the comment is just rude for the sake of being rude, I have a policy that I just delete it, as it adds nothing to the conversation.
But I’ve absolutely listened to feedback I’ve gotten over the years, especially the negative feedback, because it’s part of that growth process. I changed the style of makeup the actors wore after specific feedback:“All these characters look like they’re on a date.” I put a lot of time and effort into figuring out how to write a female protagonist who wasn’t a “Mary Sue,” and I committed to helping an actor deal with technobabble by making them do the most technobabble heavy fan film in the history fan films. As Riva would say, it’s all about turning disadvantage into an advantage.
But one thing’s for sure. No matter how hard you work on a fan film, scrutinizing every detail, people will just pick it apart. Heck, my mom and dad are my worst critics, and I started working towards ditching the miniskirts after my 14-year-old daughter referred to the character I named after her as “Star Trek Barbie.” But this happens at every level. All I ever seem to see are critical reviews of even high-budget industry projects because, really, you could critique anything. In Star Trek II, Kirk says, “Klingons don’t take prisoners.” Then in Star Trek III, Commander Kruge declares, “I wanted prisoners!” And I’ve seen people complain about that!
It seems like, as a culture, we’ve become so obsessed with critiquing what we watch that it’s hard to enjoy anything. One attitude that I see a lot is that, if the creator makes a choice that’s different than the one the viewer thinks should have been made, then it’s because the creator is “lazy” or a “awful writer.” The idea that art is subjective seems to be lost on some. They’re right, the author is wrong, and the work is just terrible—even though more people like it than hate it. Personally, that’s not how I am. I realize that a show is just a show, or a fan film is a just fan film, and I adjust my expectations based on that. But that’s me.
After six years of receiving critiques on my fan films, sure, some of the comments frustrate me. But it’s not that I just can’t take criticism. It’s more that I’ve become fascinated by the patterns those criticisms follow—so much so that I’ve been able to categorize them. I figured I would share what I’ve come up with. Some of these are a bit paraphrased, but they are real comments, or amalgamations of comments…
1. Maligning the Acting
One background actor struggles with a line:
“UGH! BAD ACTING!”
The comments about actors make the top of the list because it absolutely is the thing commented on the most. The fact is that the fan film guidelines do not allow us to hire and pay professional actors. So most times, these are normal people who are friends getting together to have a good time. It’s frustrating to see that so little grace is given for that. On Avalon, my approach most of the time has been to find aspiring actors, people looking for experience and demo material. I feel like we’ve brought good people on board. And certainly, I’ve had to adapt my directing style towards working with less experienced actors. For the good ones, you don’t have to say much other than to give them an inner motivation for their actions. With less experienced actors, I’ve learned you can’t be afraid to get in there with them, give them line readings if you need to, or even act out the blocking a bit if you do it in a respectful way. It’s just a reality that you can’t have Hollywood-level actors. If an actor was a Hollywood level actor, that’s where they would be. Still, this kind of criticism is frustrating because it’s just kind of rude—even if it is legitimate.
2. Insulting the Actor’s Physical Appearance
Actors have normal bodyweight and are not perfect models:
“They need a gym on this ship, this crew is FAT!”
“Too many trips to the replicator for this crew!”
“I guess fitness standards have gone downhill in the future!”
Ok, I get it. Again, people love to post snarky comments. It’s just a part of YouTube culture. And I can even understand this sometimes with actors who are very overweight—like me. It’s one of the reasons I’m working so hard on myself before I get back on camera. But when I see it with people who just have normal bodies, that’s where I scratch my head. Is this how unrealistic our standards have become? And what does the commenter look like anyway?
3. Critiquing the Age of the Actors
40-year-old Male Captain:
“This Captain is too old to be believable, he needs a walker, dentures, and AARP”
32-Year-old Woman as the Captain“:
“A Captain is the equivalent of a full bird Colonel! This woman is too young to be believable! She comes off more like a Cadet”
I’m completely lost on this one. If you watched a single Star Trek movie after The Wrath of Khan, you’ve seen older actors portraying active Starfleet officers. Sure, The Simpsons took a swipe with Star Trek XII: So Very Tired. But still, Kirk was 32 in “Where No Man Has Gone Before,” and Picard was 59 in “Encounter at Farpoint.” Why accept that from canon Star Trek but hold a fan film’s feet to the fire because there was a background actor who had grey hair? They had that in TOS and TNG too. In my mind, it’s just too nitpicky.
4. Blatant Sexism
The commenter sees something that they consider to be “Woke B.S.” because a female character or characters are prominent in the film:
“More Girlboss nonsense!”
“A Woman could never command a Starship; their brains aren’t capable. It’s scientifically proven!”
“Too many women on the bridge. They should only be in the background in support positions”
“An all-female crew?? SIGN ME UP!!!”
“Star Trek has always been about Men.”
The other night, I watched Star Trek IV. In the space of 10 minutes, we saw an African American woman as the captain of the U.S.S. Saratoga, an African American man as the C-in-C of Starfleet, and a man from South Asia as the captain of the U.S.S. Yorktown. This was in 1986. Star Trek is about humanity more than it is spaceships. If you’re coming into Star Trek fandom with an attitude that only a white guy can be the captain, you and I are not on the same page, and I don’t care what you think. I’m also not leaving the white guy out either. Captain Derek Mason, played by my friend of 30+ years TYLER DUNIVAN, is a hero in this story too. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations IS Star Trek.
5. Star Trek Should Always Be…
The “only TOS” bubble, 1980s and 90s retcons are heresy:
“The 1972 Franz Joseph Technical Manual says…”
“I know canon is just out the window these days, but can’t these writers do enough research to figure out that Romulan ships don’t have warp drive??!!!”
“A (insert character) should never do this under any circumstance!”
“TNG style VFX in a TOS film betrays the 1960s and fails to honor TOS! Too much Fan Wank in this!!”
If someone feels this way, then fine. I kind of think it’s missing the point of fan films, which is about exploring your own creativity in the Star Trek universe. A universe is a big place, and I’m under no obligation to adhere to 1970s fan speculation as religious dogma, especially if it’s superseded by on-screen canon in the 90s. In the 60s, writers were still figuring the show out.
The internal “pseudo-science” of how it all works wasn’t developed until the 90s. In “Court Martial,” Kirk refers to the “atomic matter piles.” Obviously, we know now that these ships aren’t nuclear powered. In “The Cage,” Spock says “Switch to rockets! We’re blasting out of here!” and yet it’s obvious that these ships don’t run on chemical rockets or “time warp” as Jose Tyler called it in the same episode. So, the thought that I should write a fan film to account for Romulan ships not having warp drive because of a throwaway line by Scotty in “Balance of Terror” (“Their power is simple Impulse…”) is, in my view, absurd. Of course Romulans have warp drive! If they didn’t, they could never reach another star system.
To me, the argument that I should adhere religiously to TOS continuity and 1970s fan speculation and just throw TNG-era concepts of how these ships work out the window makes no sense, especially considering how inconsistent these concepts were just within TOS itself from season to season, or even episode to episode.
The other idea that I simply don’t accept is “A (captain, first officer, engineer) should always only act in (x) particular way—no exceptions.” I write characters, not architypes. Again, the attitude seems to be that if a character behaves in a certain way that the commenter thinks that they shouldn’t, it’s “bad writing” instead of considering that making a wrong choice is a realistic thing that a complex and flawed character might do. That was the main issue writers had working with GENE RODDENBERRY. Perfect people make for boring stories. Leaders, captains, presidents, and dump-truck drivers all make mistakes. It’s human.
6. Unsolicited Filmmaking Advice
“My dad was a sound engineer, and I think you guys should try (says something we’re already doing)”
“Too many tight shots. It feels small!”
“Too many wide shots, you guys really need to get in there on an 85mm lens!”
“You’re moving the camera too much, it comes off like JJ Trek!”
“Your camerawork seems too static, you should try moving the camera more”
“Too much Bokeh, it isolates the character too much from their environment”
“It doesn’t seem like you do a lot of Bokeh”
“Tailor your costumes!!!”
Yeah, you could waste a lot of energy jumping through hoops, especially when feedback like this is so contradictory. Everyone has a different viewpoint, and that’s fine. Just do your best and keep going. In the end, you don’t have to justify your lens choices to anyone. Experts come out of the woodwork with “sage” advice, and yet they have no credits on IMDb or videos on their own channel. If it’s helpful, listen to it. If it’s not, just say, “Thanks.”
7. One Little Quibble…
“Other than that, good job.”
I get this one a lot. No big deal, everyone has an opinion. What’s interesting though is how often I get this exact phrasing in a comment. It’s kind of like listening to everyone tell my friend who is a weatherman, “Oh, we watch you all the time.” You hear the same thing from every single person who approaches you. You hear it ten times a day, the exact same wording. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it, and at least it’s friendly.
8. The Intentionally Mean-Spirited Comments
“Your productions are a waste of time.”
“Embarrassing”
“Sloppy Editing!”
“Ugh! The writing!”
These add nothing to the conversation and are pointless, in my view. I mostly delete them. In one instance, another content creator was going around to many different YouTube channels and leaving ugly comments. Upon visiting his channel, I discovered that he was also a filmmaker who had gained very few views for his films or subs to his channel. And he was attacking a lot of other content creators. As the saying goes, “You’ll never be attacked by someone doing more than you.”
9. The Backhanded Compliment
“Still better than Discovery”
This one is THE MOST commented thing in all of fan films. And heck, it may not even be true. Basically, these commenters are simply using my fan films (or someone else’s fan films) to attack something else they hate. Get over yourselves, people.
10. Personal Attacks
I won’t dignify any of those comments by quoting them.
Beyond the YouTube comments and criticisms, many people have attacked me personally, and the vast majority of those are people who have never met me or been on set with me. But that doesn’t take away from the wonderful experiences I’ve had on set or the hundreds of truly wonderful people I’ve met because of Star Trek fan films.
No matter what you do in life, if you get up, go out into the world and make waves of any kind, there will be critics. The only way to avoid it is to never even let the world know that you’re there.
Personally, I think the adventure is worth it, and I wouldn’t change a thing. I’ve learned some hard lessons doing this and taken some hard hits. But like my other hobby (mixed martial arts) you get punched in the mouth. It hurts sometimes, and I’ve even reacted to the negativity the wrong way a lot. That’s also a mistake. But the most growth in any endeavor comes from learning from your mistakes.
The saying goes, “If you can’t say something nice, then don’t say it at all.” I disagree. Sometimes people really do feel the need to say critical things, even if no one actually asked for their opinion. And that’s fine. But to these people, I simply request the following: “If you can’t say something nice, then at least try to say what you have to say in a nice way.” I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
A really good outlook. I watch almost every Fan Film that comes my way. I’ve always enjoyed them. I’ve thought of doing one myself but I have ideas, not tallent. I’ve made great fan films in my mind and I expand on them and tell my kids. We all laugh and t ell each other how we’d do it and have a great time. Thanks for your view on the subject
I dreamed of making a fan film up until the point when I actually made one. I didn’t have all of the necessary skills, but I knew people who did, and I also knew how to manage a project. Sometimes, Barry, that’s all it takes. 🙂
Well Said, Josh! More “fans” should see this…you nailed every point on the head!
Jonathan tallied up the number of fan films I’ve been associated with as somewhere north of 30 and I’ve had the fortune to work with Josh more than once-I even got the chance for an Avalon Universe cameo, which is wonderful irony given my surname. He’s an excellent director and cinematographer and I’d love to work with him again.
I typically don;t read the comments on the films on which I’ve worked. When I was working with Potemkin Pictures, Randy Landers used to have to call my attention to ones he wanted me to see or to ones he liked and wanted me to respond. In the process I’ve seen all of these criticisms directed at me personally, and I’ve also seen some that reminded me why we do this in the first place. There have been a couple I’ve treasured, like the comment we got on an episode we shot during the pandemic (I risked COVID to fly to Kentucky) to the effect that we made someone’s life better during the lockdowns, of the one who sought me out via my work email to tell me how much a particular episode I wrote meant to him, or the woman who stopped me at the one sci-fi con I’ve been to, Treklanta 2015 where I’d gone because I was doing a friend a favor, and opened the conversation in French because she was from Quebec and felt seen by my French Canadian transporter engineer appearing in the classic Starship Farragut episode “Conspiracy of Innocence.” In fact, one of the ones I treasure most came from Josh himself, when he told me that he thought my portrayal of Maurine Farrell had a “heroic quality.”
On every set I’ve had the luck to work, it’s always been a group of nerds trying to get a small corner of the Trekverse for themselves. Just for a moment, to be there, where no one has gone before…except for our friends. It represents a world we all hope for, and a chance to tell the stories in it that we ourselves always wanted to see, in one way or another, all started by a diverse crew from all walks of life who were as much a found family as they were colleagues. I’ve traveled over half the United States and made dozens of friends in the process of creating enduring stories. I wouldn’t trade a bit of it.
That, Victoria, is the philosophy and attitude that we all treasure so much. Those who complain and criticize just don’t get it.
Basically yes and why I often won’t read comments or more likely just skim over them. Two of the points motivated me to comment:
I’m not an actor though I studied acting for a number of years with a retired actress for fun. Unless someone is a born actor, doing a decent job takes a lot of study. So for this one I cut a lot of slack and will very seldom fault a video for this. Anyone who can pull off a decent job of acting without formal training and a minor amount of talent is worthy of applause on the other side of that coin. The only time this is close to being OK is when one person is so far off the mark that the overall video is ruined and that is a very very rare beast.
As far as #7, Quibbling, goes, I’m guilty of that sin so all I can write is that sometimes someone has done a great job except for “one little thing”. I’m not going to defend that but it’s hard to resist when there’s just one “sore thumb” thing that sticks out in an otherwise great video.
My feeling about “one little thing” is that there is no way to fix it. The film is completed. Even if the showrunner could insert a voice-over or extra scene to explain/correct something, re-posting the video would reset the YouTube views to zero. So I usually err on the side of not sprinkling salt on the wound. After all, I’m not really accomplishing anything other than making someone who worked really hard on something feel just a little bit worse.
True but mostly I’m thinking of people who might want to see the video and are looking for reviews. I do the same thing for plumbers, coffee shops and so forth. And maybe such feedback will be of use in subsequent productions.
Fan films are mostly meant to be fun, and in that regard they are runaway successes, every last one! I’ve never seen a Trek fan film that I did not enjoy. I hope it felt good to write this, and I also hope that you let these criticisms roll off you and keep on doing these projects!!!