Axanar’s INDUSTRY STUDIOS takes in $6,000 in its FIRST TWO HOURS!

And they’re off!

As previously announced, the Indiegogo crowd-funding campaign for INDUSTRY STUDIOS (formerly Ares Studios) in Valencia, CA is now live…and kicking butt, it seems!  With a stated goal of $60,000 to cover rent, utilities, insurance, off-site storage of sets (when not in use in order to clear the sound stage), payment processing fees, and perk production and fulfillment ONLY (no salaries), the new campaign had already taken in more than $6,0o0 (10% of their primary goal) in just the first two hours!

There was a question whether fans and donors would stay loyal to AXANAR (which will be filmed in Industry Studios) after the difficult year of 2016 was filled with legal proceedings and a parade of accusations and vitriol directed by detractors at Alec Peters, the man behind both Axanar and Industry Studios.  In fact, one detractor has recommended on Facebook that those wishing to “spread the truth” donate $1 so they can post critical comments to the campaign.  I don’t have confirmation that such a thing has happened yet, but it wouldn’t be particularly surprising…sadly.

So far, the momentum appears to be on the side of the donors and supporters.  The campaign has stated that the money raised will go toward helping to fund a facility that can be used for multiple fan, independent, and student films at little-to-no cost for the production itself.

It’s a very cool idea, and one that apparently already has the interest of one local Los Angeles film school.  Also, the campaign has finally revealed which non-Axanar production will be the first to use the studio.  For months, Alec Peters has been stating that’s he was in discussions with producers eager to use the studio…and both supporters and detractors were wondering who.  Now it’s been announced that this production will be Personal Space, which had starred the late Richard Hatch in its soon-to-be released first season.  Season two will be crowd-funding soon and be co-produced by Axanar Productions.

Keep in mind that none of the money raised in this campaign will go to fund the filming of the Axanar fan film (a stipulation of the legal settlement with CBS and Paramount).  Therefore, none of the perks offered have any Axanar anything (sorry if you wanted more patches, folks)…with one exception.  A special “Origins: Behind the Scenes of Axanar” documentary will be released on Blu-ray with footage and commentary on the making of Prelude, the “Vulcan Scene,” and the never-released Heroes vignette…as well as background info on the Four Years War.

It looks to be an exciting month!  You can find out more about the campaign and make a donation if you’d like by clicking this link:

And you can watch the donor informational video below:


84 thoughts on “Axanar’s INDUSTRY STUDIOS takes in $6,000 in its FIRST TWO HOURS!”

  1. Not trying to be a douche but I still haven’t got my perks from the first two campaigns.

    Why should I donate again?

    1. There were three campaigns, and the first two have distributed all of their perks (with the exception of the DVD/Blu-ray of the finished Axanar movie…since it hasn’t been finished yet). If you’re still missing your perks, for the first two Kickstarters, you should contact Diana Kingsbury at Axanar Productions. Just as an FYI, I’ve received my perks for both the first two campaigns, as have two of my friends who also donated.

    2. Well, if you donated in the Kickstarter, you would have received your patches by now. Other than that, of course we can’t ship any perks until the film is done. So saying “I haven’t received anything yet”, seems to indicate that you didn’t donate at a level high enough to get a patch, and are just waiting on your digital download.

      You may want to read our fulfillment blog that Diana writes that keeps everyone up to date on what is happening with fulfillment.


  2. Oooooh, this gives me some inspiration… because of the guidelines and the settlement, they can’t make a Star Trek film… however they can a “the making of”, which will undoubtedly contain footage of the material already made, and release that on blu-ray… so…

    If you make something non-video fan thing which you CAN DO, and then make a “the making of”, released as a commentary on that, which you CAN DO (AFAIK), and then include scenes with actors of how you would imagine certain bits scenes play out (like how you get dramatised reconstructions during a lot of documentary commentaries), so long as you do it as a commentary of the book/audio-adventure/whatever you can get away with for the non-video fan thing. My idea, you have the making of with the artists (actors/writers/directors/etcetera) talking about how they came up with the idea, so it feels like prelude, but instead of coming from the vantage point the characters giving the interview for memory alpha; this comes from vantage point of the real-world artist giving the making-of commentary, with flashes just like in Prelude to flesh out what they refer to.

    Have I just found a legal loophole? You might be able to even skip the whole thing on which the commentary is about. I mean how you can sue fans for talking about their ideas about Star Trek.

    Tl;dr, make Axanar more meta, like the DS9 episode Far Beyond the Stars, where you have Alec Peters et al. sharing their dreams for the Axanar story, and have flashes to acting to peer into Peters and co’s minds. This way you AFAIK you can kiss the guidelines goodbye! 😀

    1. I’m not sure the idea would work as well as you think it would, Jack. I doubt I would have been quite as impressed by the new Battlestar Galactica if all I saw were pitch meetings for story ideas, narration by Ron D. Moore, and a few actual scenes thrown in here and there.

      1. I think it all depends on the execution. If you had told me before I saw Prelude that we would just see a few people talking about the beginning of the Four Years War with a few actual scenes thrown in here and there, I would have had the same reaction, but after having seen it, yes, it worked (you see what I did there with your words). Now I just say we do the same for the full length Axanar, but take a step back to give it that extra touch of meta to make it legally acceptable (assuming that this makes it legally acceptable).

        The impressive nature does not come from the sales talk, the “pitch”, (and after all, such a documentary has nothing to sell, so it wouldn’t contain a pitch), but it comes from the the ideas and the passion within, the magic of Star Trek (at least for me), comes from here. Plus a pitch just tries to sell the overall concept, here I talk about a blow by blow account of the full Axanar feature film that lay in the imagination of Alec Peters, Richard Hatch, Tony Todd, Kate Vernon, etcetera. Tell the full story of Axanar as a series of interconnected dreams from the people who were personally and emotionally invested in the project. I presume the script was meticulously crafted, with every word existing where it lay for a reason, that the cast knew exactly what they wanted to give in every moment. So lets live their dreams, show us what lies in the head, blow by blow, word by word, facial expression by facial expression.

        Think of it as the Axanar film as intended, with everyone involved recording their own separate audio commentary track to play over the film, then remove the film, and then go back and film snippets of action like prelude did to slot in. Because the actor performs the actions of the character, you would also not have to change much from the original script, as a hypothetical example instead of Captain Sonya Alexander saying “At that moment I ran over and grabbed a phaser and fired at…”, it would be Kate Vernon saying “At that moment I would run over and grab a phaser to fire at…”, very subtle differences, but (I hope that) such differences would push Axanar from the grey zone (because there was a case to be made by both sides in court) into the into the safe green zone. Assuming Axanar had a script that the artists cared passionately enough for, for them to show off to us, then I think it would work. Plus you get the possibility for more insight into the characters because you get to hear directly what the actors/writers/etcetera wanted to portray, rather than letting subtle details slip past. I certainly got a lot more insight into Star Trek Insurrection from reading the novel after seeing the film and getting additional insights into what went through the character’s mind that the actor portrayed but we the audience might not have necessarily fully picked up on.

        (P.S. I don’t think much about the *new* Battlestar Galatica, maybe if I had seen the pitch meetings then I would have felt more excited for it, to get inside the minds of what they wanted to achieve.)

        1. I know Alec and company are planning a variation of your idea for the Axanar documentary, Jack, but not nearly as elaborate. It will allow them to show certain scenes that would have gone into the movie, but it won’t be the complete narrative. For that, you’ll need to listen to the audio drama and/or read the illustrated script.

          1. Ooh, excited! Maybe another kickstarter to expand it to the whole narrative? O:) Just look at what DS9 achieved O:).

          2. Well, with THAT kind of success, the studio could stay open for years and years. But I doubt we’ll be quite that lucky. In the meantime, though, TELL YOUR FRIENDS! 🙂

    1. It’s actually been kinda fun peeking in on the detractor FB groups today. The evolution of their comments has been fascinating. My favorite had to be this one from Carlos Pedraza, trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after 10% of the $60K goal was raised in just the first two hours:

      Crowd funding research: “One strong trend we found when analyzing these 100,000 campaigns (not just ones that met their goals) is that 42% of funds are raised in the first and last 3 days of the campaign’s duration. You should take this into consideration when planning your overall crowdfunding marketing strategy – be prepared to start strong at launch, plan a mid-campaign strategy to maintain momentum and increase exposure and ramp up your efforts at the end of the campaign to finish strong.”

      Carlos is also jumping up and down and shouting “Legion M! Legion M! Google it!!!” while the cars speed past him on the freeway. And I think he’s started a new hashtag or two.

      Finding typos on the Indiegogo page also seems to be a new pastime among detractors. A misspelling of “teh” instead of “the” along with a capital “O” in ROb Burnett’s name became quite the rallying point earlier today.

      For a while, there was suspicion of some kind of conspiracy because a whole bunch of $137 donations were recorded. That seemed like such a strange number that the detractors were convinced it was something fishy. (If any detractors are reading this, please pass along that Indiegogo lets a campaign collect shipping charges separately–something I’ve seen multiple times in other campaigns. $125 donation + $12 for shipping/handling = $137)

      And then of course, they’re mostly just dumbfounded and shocked by the initial success of the campaign. They bring up the $1.4 million, the “salary” (even though these donations are strictly for rent, utilities, insurance, payment processing, and perk fulfillment–no compensation to anyone), the fact that the studio still needs to complete soundproofing (and somehow they got a price-tag of $50,000???–Where did THAT come from?), the fact that the main goal is $60K but there are stretch goals of $100K and $200K, the fact that the $10K raised so far only covers three weeks of rent…and the list goes on.

      In other words, it’s everything they can do or say to try to pour water on this fire or poop in the swimming pool (choose your favorite metaphor).

      On the other end, I see Axanar supporters rallying together because they are once again sharing that feeling of hope, the dream for what CAN be, what we WANT there to be. Are we fools throwing away our money? Is our dream just a scam? We don’t think so. But hey, even it Alec raised only enough to pay the rent for one or two months, that’s more time than we had yesterday! So we Axanerds are choosing not just to see the glass as half-full but to imagine it filling even further with enough to share with other fan films. We choose to see the victory, however small, as a victory. And if it’s a big victory, so much the better.

      What the detractors say is unimportant…and we do not hear their words.

      1. Yeah, I’ve tackled a few of the usual suspects, like your buddy Gabe espousing his, ahem, expansive knowledge of the film industry to criticize this move. I think he’s been banging the drum the loudest on the Legion M thing…..

      2. How is rent for one or two more months helpful? In the 2+ years they have leased the place, one (maybe) thing has been filmed there. What will take place if they keep in 2 more months? Will Axanar get made? Will some other production be made? or will it just sit there for 2 more months?

          1. Well hopeuflly he can get the movie done before they have to close/relocate the studio.

          2. I guess it doesn’t matter since Alec admitted they don’t even need the studio to make Axanar anymore. So even if this IGG fails it won’t affect Axanar itself.

      3. Wow you all put way too much time into what the what’s your favorite names to call the people who disagree with your views detractors Haters.

        It seems to me your side Jonathan spends just as much time looking at and screen capping the other side, then making snarky comments about the other side. See in my opinion that doesn’t give you any sort of moral high ground.

        1. This is probably one of the most hilarious and ignorant statements I’ve seen from “your side”. Considering Jonathan is graced with the moniker “Slow Lane”, and I’ve been called “knob job”; that a significant number of posts at the various Anti-Axanar sites are nothing but screencaps of people’s posts on “our side”; that several denigrating memes have been generated by people on “your side”, especially the one that advocates Alec being tied up, thrown in the trunk of a car, and being “taken care of” by CBS. I daresay that you have inverted that which is the truth. It may he time to stop looming in the mirror, Brenda…..

  3. Very much looking forward to seeing how things turn out with this new studio… P 🙂

  4. As to Legion M. It is a PRODUCTION COMPANY, not a movie studio. A movie studio has soundstages. Warner Brothers, Fox, Paramount, Sony, Universal….all movie studios with sound stages. Otherwise, you are just a production company, like Legion M.

    I know those guys and we like them a lot. But for them being a “studio” is marketing hype as they are going right for being a public corporation. They are about making a profitable company and building equity. Axanar Productions is not.


    1. Yeah, I read their website, and I couldn’t see where they had an actual soundstage. I see Kevin Smith is one of the people behind it, which is cool. I know he’s pioneered finding different routes than the tradional studio method for making, marketing and releasing films.

        1. Well, they do call themselves a “studio”, but if you look at what they’re actually doing, they are doing more of the kind of work a production company is, mainly on the financing side. Sure, they’ve partnered with the animation studio that puts out Robot Chicken, but that’s not really what we’re talking about. As far as I can tell, they do not possess a physical building with a soundstage. Make of that what you will….

    2. Alec,

      Actually Legion M is an Entertainment Company that does far more than films (you would know this if you have ever been to their website). I also highly doubt you know anyone from there as they all have had well established careers in Hollywood before starting Legion M.

      Here’s the Link that shows their team members.

      1. But nowhere on the website do they show that they have a physical building in which exists the items necessary to actually film a movie. IE, they have no actual studio!

        1. Dave,

          That’s not an issue with me as they clearly state they work with studios, which basically means they don’t have one.

    3. Alec,

      Many of us wish you would just pick a “truth” and just stick with it.

      So is Valkyrie Studios, Ares Studios, Industry Studios, or what ever you choose to call it next, a movie studio? You sure seem to give that impression with your posts, and advertisements (and while you slight other “production companies”).

      Back in June of 2016 you wrote “no we haven’t created a movie studio. That is a total fallacy. We built a facility just like Stat Trek New Voyages and Star Trek Continues”

      You also wrote “and if you are going to give me that “you built a studio” bullshit, we have a soundstage, just like Star Trek: New Voyages and Star Trek: Continues, nothing more”

      So which is it? Are you a soundstage without sound proofing (ie, a where house ) or a movie studio as you advertise yourself?

      And you yourself defined the difference between a movie studio and sound stage when you wrote “however, a “movie studio” is different from a soundstage. You are confusing the two terms. ST:NV, ST:C and Axanar all have sound stages, not movie studios”

      Before you wrote all of the above you made videos and personally spoke of the movie studio you were creating. What ever the truth is seems to depend on what you need it to be at any given time! Just like your salary (the one you defended) is now a reimbursement!

      So I guess I have three questions. The first, are you a movie studio? And second, why did you get a refund (for your own project!) when others did not? Third, how do you support yourself? I have never heard or read of you as having a job (other than Executive Producer of Axanar, and that Propworx thing).


  5. This entire thing is going to be another blow to the supporters when Axanar is never completed and the warehouse is cleaning everything out in another couple of months!
    When this tanks it’s really going to sour people who have always backed fan films from ever getting involved in another fly-by-night project like Axanar, that’s the real tragedy here !
    It’s very disheartening to see these Star Trek fans getting fleeced again by Alec Peters, how this guy sleeps at night knowing what he’s doing is unbelievable! However, it’s the Axanar supporters money and if they want to flush it down the toilet then so be it !
    Even in Alec’s post he claims they might be moving after the lease has been fulfilled, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that the rent is going to increase dramatically because of the improvements which the donor funds paided for, another mismanagement issue which was overlooked! There’s no way this warehouse is ever going to self-sustain itself, no other legitimate production company is going to come near it, and the handful of supporters who are being bilked into donating to maintaining operating expenses isn’t a practical approach, they’ll eventually understand its an unobtainable goal!
    This entire mess with Axanar has done nothing for the fans of Star Trek but cause irreparable harm, it’s destroyed fan films of Star Trek, it’s disrupted the once proud community, and absolutely nothing has been gained from any of this !

    1. “However, it’s the Axanar supporters money and if they want to flush it down the toilet then so be it !”

      You SAY that and yet you go on and on and on and on… 😉

      1. Look James, I’ve actually restrained myself considerable for the past several days and said nothing about any of this foolishness !
        I have accepted the fact that another group of donor’s are going to be tapped again, there’s nothing which prevents people from giving away their money as they see fit – so it’s just another chapter in this sad saga !
        However, I do have a conscious, and the knowledge of knowing right and wrong and this isn’t right ! Regardless, making so light and smug toward any donor being held up to maintain a lease and various expenses, with someone holding Axanar up above their heads as bait (no guarantees of course) is nothing more than holding drugs up above an addict and demanding money – it’s just not right James and you damn well know it !

    2. Exctly. Read the IGG. If they raise $100k they think they can cover the rent till the end of the year but WILL move for 2018. Only at $200k is there a possibility of renewing the lease but even then they might still move.

      There is no long-term plan for industry studios here. This is just to keep the lights on till the end o the lease.

      1. Moving is a possibility, but so is staying. If the studio can be rented out on a regular basis, then the bills are paid. If not, then at least we had a good run at it.

        1. Jonathan how can this be classified as a good run, are you actually serious !
          We are talking about Star Trek fans which in good faith contributed over 1.5 million dollars to allow Alec Peters to produce Axanar and NOTHING has been accomplished for them directly – Alec and his group, including you too Jonathan, have benefited from some of these funds .. Alec has lived high on the hog the past couple of years and various friends of his have done good as well, all masked behind the Axanar film!
          How can any of this be classified by you as a good run when it’s over ! Unbelievable!

        2. A good run?

          Are you being serious?

          Three minutes of footage? No perks?


  6. If I become a donor of this campaign, it is enough to give myself the qualification “Servant of Alec Peters”?

      1. It is a term which appeared in the documentation for the “Axanar” lawsuit, and since then, a friend of mine who backed “Axanar” likes to tease me saying that, under the use of that term, backing the “Axanar” crowdfunding technically makes him a “servant of Alec Peters”. So sometimes he says me: “If you backed Axanar, you would also be a servant of Alec Peters like me!” and my answer is a dramatic “NOOOoooOOOO!” (kneeling to the ground and furious shaking of fist to the sky included).

        Nonetheless, I already backed the Industry Studios Indiegogo project. I have become donor nº 161, and the amount I have given has been just enough to reach 12.000 $

        1. Well, that’s a good milestone! 20% of the way there, Jake.

          Personally, I’ve never seen myself as a servant of Alec Peters so much as a servant of the dream of Axanar. Alec just happens to be the dreamer, but we all get to share in the dream.

          And as I said, this could all be a fool’s errand. I think we all realize that. But it’s worth it to us “servants of the dream” to at least try. And hey, it’s been only one day, and we’ve already managed to extend the life of the studio by a whole month!

          1. I sure hope you’re not comparing a fan film that raised a million and a half dollars and never got made to the plight of those who suffer because of systemic racism an fight for equality. Because that would be tone deaf and rude. And nowhere near as funny as you probably thought it was.

          2. Nah, I was just musing. I read Jo’s comment, “Axanar is exactly like a dream, Jonathan. Exactly.” And it got me thinking about the mindset of someone who would say that and how I’m certain there have been people throughout history who have said similar things about others’ dreams for something great, something better, something never seen before. And that got me thinking about one of the most famous dream speeches and the kind of people back in 1963 who would have said to Dr. King, “That is exactly like a dream. Exactly.” It’s more about the reaction than drawing a direct comparison of the dreams (or the dreamers) themselves.

          3. I have dreams every night. None of them ever cost 1.4 million. A finished movie would be more impressive.

            As for dropping MLK into it? I’m pretty sure trying to make a Star Trek fan film is tantamount to fighting systemic culturally engrained racism. 🙂

          4. “P.S.: Ginger and Gabe need to lighten the frak up on the MLK thing….”

            Usually the people saying “lighten up” are those who are situated in life in a way that they can’t be hurt by what’s been said. I know Lane is white, and I’m guessing Dave is, too.

            Instead of telling me to lighten up, how about thinking before opening your yaps or pound away on your keyboards? Maybe put yourself in someone else’s shoes and imagine how something might come across to them instead of deciding that it isn’t a problem just because it isn’t a problem for YOU?

            You basically proved my point about being tone deaf and rude.

  7. I don’t know what I would do if I had to pay that much to keep a soundstage running. I’m converting my barn into a place to film and it has been way more costly and time consuming than expected. Here’s hoping they make it!

  8. According to the indigogo description they won’t stay in the current warehouse for but a year then have to move?

    What are they going to do for the next year with all this money?

    1. Well, they either make enough to pay the rent for the rest of the year or they have to move to a cheaper facility…which will still have rent. Also, there would by the cost of transporting the sets. Personally, I don’t want them to have to move because the current facility is really, really nice (and I have such happy memories of lugging the carpet rolls up the stairs!). 🙂

      1. Still not sure how carpeting their offices took precedence over filming Axanar. How much was that carpet and how did that help them film Axanar?

        And what of the Propworx Business? Is that company paying rent to Industry studios for the space?

        1. The carpet and installation, as I recall, were donated by a supporter who owned a carpet-laying business…saved the production thousands. I just helped carry the rolls upstairs because I’m such a nice guy and wanted to lend a hand (or two plus a back). At the same time, Dean Newberry was leading a construction team out on the sound stage building the transporter and part of Garth’s quarters. The studio was quite a busy place back in 2015!

          1. I sure the carpeting was donated just like the office furniture was donated, this entire sham has been nothing more than a wannabe producer’s attempt to play big shot on the back of donor’s funds !
            Now with the closing down of this warehouse only a few months away now and absolutely nothing of Axanar ever produced, at what time does the reality of this entire cluster fu_ked mess and Alec Peters complete incompetence show through !

        2. You missed part of the question Jonathan does Propworx pay rent for using space? If you know of course?

  9. the funny thing is the “detractors” say”donate a dollar,so you can comment,and it can’t be removed”. Ummmm, By donating simply to leave a snarky comment, you are STILL helping the studio get to its goal.

    1. You really don’t know Alec Peter’s mentally very well, he’s always been notorious for refunding money to keep any negative comments or distraction’s to his fundraisers from being posted !
      This new sham to suckers donor’s into buying into this warehouse of his has already been laced with refunds to keep the truth away from the few remaining supporters of this failed project !
      It’s past time that the Axanar devoted suckers wake up !

      1. Well, that’s one interpretation. One loaded with Buffalo Chips, but an interpretation nonetheless. More accurately, the jackrags disrupting the campaign are being properly deleted. Tony’s probably all butthurt over this because he’s one of the aforementioned jackrags.

        1. HubcapDave what part of what I’ve said is an interpretation for you, it’s clear cut ! Everything which I’ve presented here is fact, if you look at the evidence and still can’t understand what’s going on around you with Axanar – then the problem is with the blind !
          Don’t worry though, eventually the supporters will be forced to accept the situation!

  10. So much for IDIC in the realm of some Trekkies. Isn’t that what Trek is all about and why some think Axanar is the be all end all because you say CBS doesn’t get Trek like you do. Then when someone has an issue of something serious you blow it off.

    1. “Then when someone has an issue of something serious you blow it off.”

      Oh, you mean like when I just post a detractor’s comment and then don’t engage them? It’s actually allowing me to get a LOT of other things done. It’s not my responsibility to solve the “serious issues” of people who have a bone to pick with Axanar, Brenda. For several months, I appointed myself as Chief Defender, Arguer, and Lightning Rod of Axanar Productions. If was fun while it lasted (not really). But the great thing about appointing oneself to an imagined job that doesn’t pay anything, has no boss, and seems to be an exercise in futility is that you can quit at any time. And so I have.

      Some might call that “blowing it off.” Personally, I call it LIBERATING!!! 🙂

  11. I have never said I had a side and I never been rude here as I am sure Jonathan will agree with. He and I have disagreed but we have always been civil with one another.

    Fortunately I am not responsible for what anyone says but myself. As for other groups well I’m your your bunch has given as well as they received. Your “side” coined the term hater. Label people and they tend to live up to that label.

    1. “Label people and they tend to live up to that label.”

      I think terrorists were already doing quite a lot of terrorizing before we labeled them “terrorists,” Brenda. Bu that said, I’ve always tried to avoid the term “hater” on this blog, using “detractor” instead. But I don’t think I ever explained exactly why…until now.

      “Hater” implies knowing what is in the heart and/or mind of a person. While I’m certain there are some Axanar detractors out there who actually do hate Alec Peters, I don’t feel comfortable painting all of them with such a broad and negative brush.

      “Detractor,” on the other hand, does not deal with thoughts or feelings but rather with deeds. And once something is done by someone, it becomes a fact, a matter of record. Those posting critical comments about and challenges to Alec Peters and Axanar are detracting from it…meaning they are “reducing or taking away from the worth, quality, value, or reputation of” the producer and his project.

      “Hater” is a term based on so something unknowable by by me. “Detractor” is a term based on things the person has said or done. I prefer the latter.

  12. You would be surprised at how many replies I’ve written and then deleted, realizing it wasn’t worth my time to continue the conversation not to mention blood pressure with someone who has either lost the ability to have a civil discussion, debate disagreement with someone with opposing views. I will say Axanar is a topic that has certainly polarized those who either support it and those who don’t.

    1. “I will say Axanar is a topic that has certainly polarized those who either support it and those who don’t.”

      Finalist for “understatement of the year.” 🙂

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