Have the AXANAR detractors set a TRAP for ALEC PETERS?

Guys, I am really sorry for giving this topic so much attention, but it is quickly turning into a possible “detractorgate” story, and I feel it’s important to share what just happened.

As I covered on Saturday in this editorial blog, AXANAR detractor MICHAEL ILASI created a series of “mockery” videos of ALEC PETERS and Axanar using previously unreleased blooper footage from Prelude to Axanar without the consent of Alec or any of the cast members who appeared in the 2014 fan film.  This sparked quite a tempest both here and over on the Fan Film Forum Facebook group (and probably elsewhere).

When I woke up this morning, the following e-mail was waiting for me.  It had been sent anonymously via the “Contact Us” form here on Fan Film Factor at 3:43am.  Here’s a screen cap of the message…

Click to enlarge

I have no way to verify that this was, in fact, from a detractor and not just someone pretending to be a detractor.  However, I did have an interesting IM exchange with Michael Ilasi via Facebook…

It’s not necessarily a smoking gun, but the gun barrel still feels a little warm.  The fact that Michael messaged me mere minutes after Alec contacted YouTube to ask that the videos be taken down leads me to believe that yes, this was all planned out as an elaborate (is that the right adjective?) “trap” for Alec.  And of course, Michael later says, “There are more people involved in this…” implying, if I may use a word that I loathe, a conspiracy.

Needless to say, I contacted Alec himself (as Michael requested), but I also included a forward of the anonymous message I’d just received and asked for any response on the record.  Here’s what Alec wrote back…

The settlement agreement with CBS is confidential and no one but the parties knows what’s in it. That being said, nothing in it prevents me from asserting my ownership rights or protecting the image rights of the actors.

I can’t claim any copyright to Star Trek or Star Trek-related content, but as you said in your last blog, the content I filmed belongs to me and Axanar Productions.

To clarify what Alec was referring to on this blog, it was a quote from one of my legal eagles about ownership of original footage that includes elements that are someone else’s intellectual property…

Jon, let’s say you and Wendy take Jayden to Disneyland.  Jayden is wearing a Mickey Mouse T-shirt and mouse ears, and you go to see Mickey Mouse.  You then film Jayden with Mickey Mouse.  Does Disney own your video footage or do you?

You own it.  Even though you’ve got all that Disney IP in the video, it’s still your video.  Disney can’t stop you from posting it, and they can’t use it for their own purposes without your permission.  And certainly, no one else can use your footage without your permission.

Just because Alec is wearing a Star Trek shirt, that doesn’t mean he gives up any rights to that raw footage of him wearing it.  Same if any of you Trekkies go to a convention in your uniforms and take videos of each other.  CBS/Paramount don’t own your videos.  You do.

Obviously, there are other questions that could be asked at this point…questions I don’t really have answers to…

1. What are the detractors hoping to accomplish with these shenanigans?

Even if CBS Legal contacts Alec’s lawyers and complains, all Alec has to do is explain what happened, and the studios won’t be touching this with a ten-foot tribble.  Fans trying to “trap” other fans?  Who needs to wander into THAT mess?

I’m certain that CBS and Paramount won’t appreciate being manipulated by a few detractors like that.  And of course, even if the studio lawyers do drag Alec into arbitration (which is expensive and time-consuming), CBS and Paramount would need to demonstrate that Alec’s actions carry some measurable harm for the studios.  It’s not enough to simply “violate the terms of the agreement”—an agreement that none of us on the “outside” have even seen.  CBS and Paramount need to show tangible damages from those actions so that the judge can know how to make the studios whole again.

In this case, Alec contacted YouTube to take down a handful of short videos with a few hundred views at most.  He didn’t assert copyright ownership over Star Trek (since these bloopers weren’t even vaguely Star Trek except for the tunics and use of the word “Klingon).  He asserted ownership of raw cosplay footage and some VFX that he paid for.  There’s no financial harm to CBS or Paramount in any of that, and the studios know this.

In other words, it’s a nothing burger—a stupid one at that—and the fact that it’s now out there that a bunch of obsessed Trekkie pranksters did it only to manipulate CBS Legal means that any move against Alec in this situation is a public relations nightmare waiting to happen.

Look, folks, if CBS moves against Alec, it will be for a much more tangible and measurable harm reason than this.  And that’s why Alec is being so careful to follow the settlement agreement to the letter….a settlement agreement that both he and CBS legal are very familiar with (unlike the rest of us).

2. What’s wrong with these people?

I mean, really.  The detractors try to claim some kind of “nobility” in what they do.  They like to claim that they are simply trying to “protect the fans” from the “evils” of Alec Peters.

How does “trapping” him and then reporting him to CBS accomplish this exactly?

Look, to everyone but the detractors themselves (and even to some of them), this looks like simple hatred run amok.  The snarky memes, the confrontational arguments that still go on 16 months after the legal settlement, the Facebook groups, the monitoring websites, the videos, the posts on blogs and social media, and now this “trap”…why can’t they just let this all go and get on with their lives?

It’s not like Alec is going off the rails with plans to violate his settlement agreement.  No, he’s quietly setting about to make the last two installments of Axanar.  He gives some updates from time to time, but not many…unlike the glory days of 2014 and 2015 when he’d post and boast constantly.  And following the terms of the settlement, Alec is not using any public crowdfunding campaigns to pay for the production of the remaining two fan films.

3. So what exactly is Alec doing wrong then?

I suspect, if you asked some detractors, they’d say, “Well, he’s still breathing, isn’t he?”  Perhaps that’s a little extreme on my part, but they’d probably argue that he’s still making Axanar, so they have to keep fighting him until he gives up and slinks away.

But again, why?

CBS and Paramount are ALLOWING Alec to make the final two installments of Axanar.  The studios are fine with it…so why aren’t the detractors?  Why try to trap Alec and ruin it for everyone (or at least those of us who want to see these last two fan films)?  How is that “protecting” anyone?

I have no answers to any of these questions that don’t involve the words “obsession” and “hate.”

93 thoughts on “Have the AXANAR detractors set a TRAP for ALEC PETERS?”

  1. It’s very simple Jonathan, to quote Lily Sloane from STFC,
    “its so simple, Alec hurt them (by not making the fan film, even though he was being sued by CBS and was in no way able to make that film, part of this is confirmed by a major detractor) and now they want to hurt Alec”.

    They always claim the victim, yet never claim responsibility, always claim the moral high ground and yet when faced with those who do not take their point of view or their take on the evidence throughout this debacle, rather than take a moral high ground and keep it to “Agree to Disagree”, then resort to personal attacks, harassment (The Gabe incident and reason I have had to change FB accounts TWICE, including having my family receiving FB messages to confirm I had passed away..YEAH real funny!)
    Take the identity of a news reporter to attack Alec and supporters, have a meme page dedicated to the continue bullying and harassment of Alec and friends and family.

    Ok I get it you hate Alec, you feel that you have to SAVE the rest of us, have your opinions I get that, respect that BUT what I do not get and how you can say or have the attitude of the ends justify the means, when you act more like an organized mafia, who feel they can do what ever they want, even if it means harassing innocent families who most likely have no idea who and what Axanar is, but I bet you this, if it happened to one of them oh god it would be over axamonitor and every “Detractors” Gospel quicker than a whippet with a bum full of dynamite.
    But, this is the big but for me, If you are trying to Save us, then your conduct has to be better than who and what your saving us from? you cant expect those to take your side of the argument seriously if you act like school yard bullies, who do not follow any rules or refuse to take responsibility or accountability for your actions (or the inactions of certain admins).

    To be honest it has gotten to to the point that even if any thing the detractors have claimed or accused Alec of (tbh if i saw him punch the pope or headbutt Gary Grahame) too much has already been done by the detractors for me to even remotely consider saying that “well they were right”.
    They have lost all credibility and all it stands for now is a nest for hate and bullying to exist and evolve.

    1. BTW, I should make clear that this trap, if trap it were, was NOT organized by ALL detractors. I’m not trying to call out the entire lot for the actions of a few. My point is simply that it’s time to move on. There’s nothing more to “protect” us from. If Alec ever tries to publicly raise money for Axanar again, then sure…make your case (just don’t block the donation window). But right now, all Alec is trying to do is live his life, make us a fan film, and enjoy being a Star Trek fan. Why is it so hard for the detractors to let him do that?

    2. Steve, yer thousands of miles away. This happened to real people a lot of us Really Know in towns we actually live in.

        1. I’m guessing its a “We live in America, Alec hurt us in America, so only us in America can understand the pain we feel” or something to that effect.
          I, however, not only live in America, not only live in California, but the same city that the original Axanar studios was in. I had volunteered on numerous occasions, from the initial move, to laying out the flooring, to constructing the workspaces, to finally the moving out to relocate to Atlanta. I had seen not only the progress (on the sets, not JUST the studio), but also spoken with all those involved and had some of the most amazing Trek geekouts with them (and other volunteers, like a now good friend who introduced me to Starfleet IFA) that I had ever had. So I am perfectly justified in not only saying that they WERE IN-FACT making legitimate progress before the lawsuits, but that they are all also deeply devoted Star Trek fans (not “just in it for the money”).

          Did Alec bite off more than he could chew? Perhaps. Were miscalculations and mis-steps made? Certainly. Was there deliberate intention to harm and/or profit off Star Trek? No frakking way.

          The problem here is, its far easier for people to blame one fan film creator than blame the parent company/studio, or the corporate machine that Hollywood has become. And what they also don’t realize is,… Hollywood is all the happier when we are turning against each other.

      1. Gabe, a bit incoherent there hmmm?
        and before you can even remotely come at me, When you spend months and months Stalking a family. YEAH well done you, stick that on your IMDB page!

        do yourself the biggest favour you can do for you and your dearest…go get some counseling.

  2. The detractors are nothing but trolls, plain and simple. They want to “stir the pot”, simply because they can.



  3. Actually I shouldn’t laugh because I think you’re half right.

    First off let me say I have nothing to do with this YouTube channel or the people behind it. I don’t know for sure who they are, but I can guess. Secondly, I’m pretty sure by now that all of us are well enough versed in copyright law to know that Peters of course own the copyright to his footage, but not the Trek IP.

    So that said, I believe this is STILL a trap but not how you envisage. The DMCA works like this: a person claims it’s their copyright so YT takes it down, the uploader files a counter claim, the person then has to file suit to claim infringement within 14 days otherwise the clip goes back up.

    That’s the trap.

    Once Peters files suit and the other lawyers up it will eventually go to trial. When that happens so does discovery. In that all of the information that has previously been redacted and sealed will most likely come to light. All of the lies and narrative changes. Both sets of Peters financials. Previous bankruptcies and court judgments, etc. That’s the trap.

    So yes, please, convince Peters to carry on with this.

    1. Alec says he didn’t file a DMCA. He simply contacted YouTube and filled out their form. There are a limited number of check boxes, and he checked the most appropriate ones.

      As I said in the blog, Alec wouldn’t file suit for copyright infringement. He would file for unlawful use of image. That wouldn’t affect CBS or Paramount in any way.

      1. Apparently “Unlawful use of Image” only applies to advertising, according to a few lawyers I know (actual practicing lawyers, not just by training). So yes, please go for it.

        The form on YouTube IS FOR FILING DMCA TAKEDOWN REQUESTS. That’s its purpose. He didn’t “contact YouTube”, he filed out an online form. You guys really need to do some research.

        1. You might want to check with your lawyer friends again and ask if they are 100% certain that “Unlawful Use of Image” applies ONLY to purposes of advertising. The key work being “ONLY.” My source says “usually but not always,” and also adds that Michael’s videos are also trying hard to convey the message that Alec Peters is somehow incompetent as an actor or executive producer. And interestingly enough (according to my friend), while that could be an intriguing defense for a claim of fair use for reasons of critical commentary, it also “advertises” the position of the detractors. Considering that there are websites and Facebook groups like Axamonitor dedicated to pushing this negative message about Alec, and they are always looking for new members and readers, being able to link to this video (and a link to it was posted by Michael to the Axamonitor group) could be considered a form of advertising.

          My legal eagle told me once, “Look, Jon, lawyers usually throw as much mud at the wall as we can and see what sticks.” In this case, there’s certainly an argument there. Whether or not it’s a winning argument is anyone’s guess. My point all along has been simply:

          1) Alec doesn’t need to claim copyright in order to sue for Unlawful Use of Image, and

          2) Simply getting sued is an expensive proposition. Alec can afford to sue if he wants to (at least right now). Can Michael afford a lawyer to defend himself? And is “trapping” Alec even worth it?

          Amusingly, there’s now been some talk that the true trap was to get Alec to sue Michael in order to force the release of Axanar financials during discovery. That one made a lot of people laugh, including Alec, because it’s a losing (and stupid) assumption. I’m sure your own lawyer friends will confirm that any such demand for said documents during a lawsuit about Unlawful Use of Image would be deemed irrelevant and denied by the judge. Nothing about a case involving the illegal use of Axanar footage featuring Alec and the other actors (and Steven Jepson’s name) has anything to do with the money Alec generated to produce Axanar. And heck, remember that the blooper footage was shot PRIOR to the crowd-funders that brought in the $1.2 million anyway!

          So if the real trap was to try to get another look at those financials and find a hidden skeleton (and honestly, there aren’t any), mis-using footage shot BEFORE all that crowd-funding ever happened is not the way to go about it. Sorry, Michael.

          Please feel free to check with your lawyer friends on everything I just said. I find these dueling anonymous legal advice debates to be really fun! 🙂

    2. Actually Sandy, a claim of “unauthorized use of likeness” would in no way involve the previously settled lawsuit, or Axanar Financials, previous bankruptcies etc….all it would involve is whether or not the “few detractors” who made these “teasers” had the “right” to use such footage in the manner that they did.

      Anything else would not be germain to the complaint as filed and therefore inadmissible into a court of law.

      But you already know that, you simply wanted to espouse all that, and continue the “if Alec sue’s anyone, everything comes to light” mantra.

      Oh yeah, since the videos are being placed on the internet, and therefore viewed by people all over, Alec would only have to file one single case in federal court, because using the internet in this fashion allows him to list every defendant without actually having to travel to every defendants home state. Sucks that YouTube is considered under interstate commerce(even though nothing is actually being sold)

      My advice, get new legal advice, because yours is sorely lacking

      1. Actually, unlawful use of image is only a state law (and varies state to state). It’s not federal. Just want to be accurate here, Jon. 🙂

        1. While unlawful use of image is “state to state”…..YouTube is NOT, that is why I said “federal case”…..it isn’t like me taking a photo of you and Jayden (for instance,not that I would) and made flyers soley to pass out here in Virginia.

          Because of the “way YouTube works” as a nationwide(worldwide) internet platform, the case would still be federal(under interstate commerce laws).

          The manner of dissemination greatly matters in this case. Also let’s say the defendants “were able” to include things like the financials(judge allow them in as reference to Alec’s “character”)…..then every message, meme and comment on Facebook, email etc, would be allowed to show defendants character and “state of mind” when making these videos.

          That is a double edged sword I doubt they really want to lay on the table.

          1. I’ve been told that judges tend to err on the side of not providing outrageous amounts of discovery if they can avoid it. They can’t always, but they try to not let lawyers use ridiculous amounts of discovery to run up each other’s billable hours…and take up the judge’s valuable time! 🙂

            The problem with making a federal case out of this, Jon, is that there is no federal statute concerning unlawful use of image. The jurisdiction would be either in the state of residence of the person who made the video, the person who posted the video, or the person doing the suing. Even though the delivery mechanism (YouTube) crosses state lines (and international borders), so does the U.S. post office and the Internet itself. Cases of illegal use of name and image have been brought in state court even when brochures were mailed out to different states or when people created their own websites (also international) using names and images of people without getting permission.

            Also, I’m not certain how Alec’s “character” is relevant to this case…nor his “state of mind” when he made the video. Without the granting of consent in a reproducible form (signature on contract, letter, email, etc.), there is no consent, regardless of “state of mind.” The closest thing Michael has to a “loophole” is the “open source” blog that Alec published last year. But even that was specific to only certain uses of the Axanar source material and did not include mention of unreleased (or released) footage where he or other actors appeared. And even if Michael somehow argued that he “thought” it would be okay based on the blog entry, Alec contacted Michael directly through a public medium (Fan Film Forum on Facebook) weeks before the videos were released to let Michael know in no uncertain terms that Alec was NOT providing consent and that Michael was not permitted to use footage of Alec or the cast of Axanar.

            With such a clear communication a matter of public record, state of mind at the time of filming seems to be easily trumped by Alec’s direct communications to Michael just before he posted the video. In my opinion, discovery in this case remains very specific and limited.

            We’ll see if a judge agrees with you or me if this ever gets that far.

    3. Actually, to Sandy’s tiresome claims; there was a donor set of financials, where all the donor money was spent, and a Master set of financials, which included all the money myself and others put in, and standard business expenses like auto and meals consistent with commonly accepted accounting practices. Nothing nefarious as Sandy and the other detractors would have you believe. Both sets of financials were reviewed by all principles in Axanar, the Independent financial review committee, our lawyers, accountants and Jonathan Lane. NO ONE found anything unusual and attested to the fact that the money was spent in a way consistent with industry practices. But that doesn’t fit the detractor narrative, so they invent lies and use CBS “claims” to try and forge a narrative that is a lie. The only lies are Sandy’s and the other detractors.

      As to court cases, the absurdity of the haters is that they aren’t lawyers and yet state legal principles that are entirely wrong as fact as Sandy has done. For example, while I have absolutely no problem with any reasonable person seeing our finances as I have proven (Even invited a detractor to review them, yet he has never taken me up on the invitation), they would be ENTIRELY irrelevant in any court proceeding on copyright or other rights infringements since the issue of law and fact would be those rights, not finances.

      Also, a previous business bankruptcy is irrelevant. And the average multi-millionaire in this country has experienced at least one such business failure (The President has about 7 bankruptcies).

      The fact that these detractors seem to think:

      1) Any lawsuit will require me to turn over entirely irrelevant information in discovery.

      2) That I have anything to hide, since dozens of people, all more legitimate and professional than any hater, have reviewed the finances and will attest to what I have said.

      Just shows how deluded they are.

      At some point, the detractors may wake up to the fact that they aren’t as smart as they think they are.

      Actually, probably not

      1. Technically, I didn’t “review” the financials. I looked at the 28 pages of spreadsheets, went down the list picked out several items per page, realized that this was all ridiculously meticulous, had my eyes glaze over after about 5 or 6 pages, took a break, read some e-mails, watched some TV, and then went back to the boring spreadsheets until my eyes glazed over again after another 5 or 6 pages. I repeated this procedure a few more times. But I didn’t technically “review” them. I skimmed them because I’m a blogger, not an accountant, dammit. 🙂

      2. Funny that the “financial review” is no longer on the Axanar website after one of your reviewers asked you to take it down. Also funny that the judge ruled that you DID personally profit from donor funds and then you settled a few days later.

        But whatevs, go ahead and file suit.

        1. Actually, Sandy, both sides settled, not just Alec. In late December 2016, CBS (and Paramount) significantly softened their settlement position to now allow for Axanar to be made–the previous settlement offer would not allow Axanar to be made in any way, shape, or form…their only concession was that Alec would not be forced to take down Prelude and The Vulcan Scene. The new settlement offer allowed for Axanar to be completed with the same professional cast and crew…only a shorter version.

          Why did CBS blink on the cusp of a major victory in court? (As you said, Sandy, the judge’s ruling had put Alec in a very unfortunate position. Why would CBS not strike the killing blow…or at least hold fast to their initial settlement terms? You version of the story doesn’t make any sense, does it?) CBS’s reason–as I previously commented here on FFF–is that Judge Klausner’s decision to exclude a fair use defense opened up the case to an appeal in the Ninth Circuit…an appeal that could last for years. CBS didn’t want this case still in the media when Discovery premiered. And that’s why they suddenly softened their settlement terms, and also why Alec agreed to them. The deal suddenly became much more tenable. And while Alec would have preferred to get a clear victory and be able to make the full Axanar movie, such an option was, at best, years away…and by no means guaranteed. The settlement deal was a sure thing and allowed Axanar to be completed with the same cast and professional crew. Giving up 60 minutes of the finished project was a tough pill to swallow, but it was still a good deal, all things considered.

          So in the best sense of the words, the settlement was a true compromise. Both sides gave a little and got a little.

          Your version of events is good red meat to throw to the detractors, but it just doesn’t make sense to anyone who was paying attention to what actually happened.

          1. Exactly right Jonathan, and another Sandy lie. The settlement happened exactly the way you said Jonathan. When Klausner erroneously denied a Fair Use defense, a matter of fact for a jury, not a matter of law for a judge, we had an automatic appeal to the Ninth Circuit, which would have lasted at least two more years. CBS could not afford to have the lawsuit drag out and approached US about a settlement.

            Sandy continues to lie to suit his hater agenda.

        2. Actully that is another lie Sandy. No reviewer EVER asked to take anything down, and we haven’t taken anything down.

          Also, the judge claimed we “profited” not that we used money for personal enrichment. And the settlement was not a few days later. More lies.

          Lies over lies Sandy.

  4. There doesn’t appear to be any substantial progress on producing the last two Axanar installments. The last update post was literally juat links to old updates.

      1. Please don’t accuse without supplying either proof or at least evidence, Athynz. I don’t even know for certain that this was all a conspiracy. The 3am message was completely anonymous and could have come in from anyone…even an Axanar supporter pretending to be a detractor (although I highly doubt it). That said, if all I had to go on was that mysterious message, I wouldn’t have written the blog. But combined with the IM session I’d had with Michael, that made the message look more legit. So I wrote the blog…but with disclaimer that I couldn’t verify the origin or validity of the whistleblower. My evidence was mainly the IM comments from Michael.

      1. Colin, JL opens the blog with some line about Alec being “hard at work” on the next 2 Axanar installments. If you know former Propworx guys and believe Alec Peters “works hard” at ANYTHING, I got some Flat Earth beliefs to sell ya.

        1. I’ve actually watched Alec work very hard on multiple occasions…including preparing for the studio move from California to Georgia. LOTS of heavy lifting (literally) went into that.

          Gabe thinks a number of things he imagines are true. I don’t usually hold that against him; I’m not certain it’s entirely his fault.

  5. About this whole episode…

    In my mind the main thing it accomplishes more than anything is to confirm in the minds of non-Star Trek fans just how weird people are who like Star Trek. Seriously – what in these attacks against Alec Peters can you say is a legitimate part of being a Star Trek fan?

    Ilasi is confirming by his actions every negative stereotype I’ve heard over the decades that people have of ST fans that we’re a little off center, if you get my meaning.

    I can’t stand Discovery, and do not consider it to be “real” Star Trek. As a result, I will not watch it, but agree that the studio has every right to present their vision to the public. Ilasi can’t stand Axanar, and does not consider it to be “real” Star Trek. As a result, he seems to have made it his personal mission to try and destroy the person who created it and make their life a living hell.

    It would seem that in his mind anyone who creates a vision of ST that doesn’t fit what he likes is not only unworthy of presenting their vision to the public venue, but must be attacked and shouted down until they go away (or worse). His way of thinking would have been very much at home in Stalinist Russia (or on college campuses in California today).

    I ran into a couple of so-called fans like him back in the 70s and 80s. The good thing back then was if you ran into someone like this you could bar them from your club and activities and there wasn’t much recourse for them other than for them to get a clue and straighten out their act if they wanted to be around other fans. Unfortunately, in the internet age it’s almost impossible to get away from people who are – let me put it this way – out on the fringes of fandom.

    Jonathan, I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be fair an even-handed in your treatment of this issue. Having said that, I will also say that I think the evidence shows that further patience is only going to permit future behavior like this until you are forced to take the action later that needs to be taken now – namely, banning him from the FB group and from your site here.

    And if any of his family and/or friends should read this – this entire sordid episode demonstrates the desperate need for you to stage an intervention.

    1. Michael is down to one final chance on Fan Forum. He gets to start using that chance in another five days or so. If he breaks the rules again, then he’s banned according to our stated rules that include a very generous amount of second chances. If that happens, my conscience is clear. If I ban him now, I’m not following the very rules that I’m asking Michael and everyone else to follow. That’s not my style. Sorry, but I gotta be me! And hey, maybe he’ll change his ways and not get banned. Maybe he’ll learn his lesson. Anything’s possible…except for skiing through a revolving door. 🙂

      As for banning him for posting on this blog, he hasn’t broken any of the rules here for posting. So again, no banning yet.

        1. I’m not sure this is the proper venue to ask, Ed (it’s pretty public), but after discussing with the other admins, the answer is unfortunately no. Dave Haegney shared screen caps of a number of your discussions with him, including the one where you said, “I’m still laughing. Please ban me.” Prior to that, the admins report that you’d been warned more than a few times about violating the rules. They’d rather not have you back in the group, as they don’t feel that your behavior would be much different going forward.

          1. I knew the answer was going to be no, thus the public forum. It’s a shame that you folks who cry about Alec deserving more chances don’t seem willing to give anyone else a chance.

          2. You mean like Michel Ilasi? He’s on his fourth chance, Ed. You blew through all of your chances. You even begged to be banned. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us four or five times, and we’re just being gullible. And that’s why the answer is no. Nothing hypocritical, as we gave you many warnings. Sorry, Ed, but eventually the train has to move on without you.

      1. The good of the body is the prime directive.

        There is no way allowing these sorts of thing to continue is for for anyone. no matter which side of the issue you are on.

        1. Heard the singers playing, how we cheered for more.
          The crowd had rushed together, trying to keep warm.
          Still the rain kept pouring, falling on my ears.
          And I wonder, still I wonder: who’ll stop the rain?

  6. Just a sad commentary as to how desperate things have gotten for the detractors

  7. I was reminded very strongly about a school of psychotherapy called Transactional Analysis and a “game” called NIGYSOB (now I’ve got you, you SOB). Berne as I understand him, does not typically look at an individual but rather a dyad but I’m not in the least writing anything about Alec but rather about those who can’t let it go.

    Without going into more than the acronym, obsessives might like reading this analysis of Gabrielle from Xena, Warrior Princess. But a warning that this is not only getting into the weeds, but deep deep into towering, brain-eating weeds. http://www.whoosh.org/issue29/lashmar4.html

    1. I’m currently working my way through “The Righteous Mind” by Jonathan Haidt. It’s very well-written and explains the detractors (and the Axanar supporters) perfectly. We’re all riding elephants! 🙂

      1. I just don’t understand ditractors at all. The internet and YouTube are both huge. I don’t like something I look elsewhere. If I never get anything for my $50 odd dollsrs, so what?! We lost a lot more than that in a western union dog scam. It’s only a little money. I desparayely love and need money (lol), but I can’t go nuts on someone who lost a little bit of my money honestly trying. Only an idiot would think Alec is a scammer. Come on people. So what if you think you lost a couple hundred dollars to him. That’s a fraction of your yearly expenses. I think I’ve been ripped off by the movie theater every time I’ve gone to one in the last few yeasts. Looking from the outside, this is amusing , nothing more. Hell thats been worth the lost money right there!

        Now if you want to talk Alec’s ultra loonie left wing liberal political stance, that is more than reason to have a beef with him – lol. (Sorry Alec I’m not smart enough to really argue politics as I was s Trump voter, even though I’m a registered left wing liberal myself).

        1. You’re a left-wing liberal who supported Trump??? Dude, I so wanna hear your story! Are you happy and satisfied? I’m not being facetious…I am truly curious. Please, no one else chime in. I’m not trying to turn this into a political blog. There’s way too many of those! I’m just curious.

          As for losses, listen to this story; on a tip from a relative, I bought a 3D printing stock two years ago at 80 or 90-something dollars a share. The whole industry had been shooting up like a rocket, and it seemed like a good opportunity for growth. I bought 100 shares. The stock is currently at $12. So yeah, I’m not sweating the donation to Axanar. That was only about $300 or so for me. Compared to what I’ve lost on DDD…drop in the friggin’ bucket, dude!

  8. For the love of all that is High and Holy, don’t these people have anything better to do with their lives?

  9. Jonathan, yep!!! Sounds like “obseaaion and “hate” to me too. It seems that even though it was settled in court, these people are just not satisfied until maximum retribution is exacted on Alec, which is a bunch of BS. Howver, it seems they want nothing less, which is very, very sad!!!!

  10. The haters are buried in their obsession out of spite. Nothing has gone their way. The lawsuit ended in a settlement, CBS allowed Axanar to continue in truncated form, Alec paid no civil penalties (outside of the donor money being drained because of the year long delay)…nothing they wanted worked out. That bothers them. They are “right” and unfortunately that means they won’t go away easily.

    1. No one likes to be wrong, Colin. The longer Axanar remains “unmade,” the longer the detractors can be “right” in saying that it’ll never get made. If it does ever get made, they’ll conveniently forget they ever said “never” and start griping, “Yeah, but why did it take so long???” In order to continue to be “right,” you sometimes have to move the goalposts. Remember when the detractors used to say, “CBS/P will never settle. Alec is going to lose and lose big, and we can’t wait to see that happen…”?

      So right. 🙂

  11. I for one would love to see any of the Axanar “detractors” respond to this.

      1. Truth. For some reason I wasn’t seeing comments earlier than mine. His response was pretty much what I expected. Worthless. It would be a breath fresh air if one of the detractors just admitted that some of the actions taken by them has gone beyond reasonable, if not psychotic.

  12. Well, if trap there is, maybe there were before.
    All this affair could be seen as a trap from day one.
    In fact, we never knew how CBS was informed of the Axanar project and decided to sue Alec Peters. I wouldn’t be surprised that detractors have gently passed the word at the time…
    As a matter of facts, some of the troubles were caused by an insider before his coming out. Let’s make it clear, traps happened before, it is no surprise it goes on as it is just hate.
    What a shame.

    1. I don’t believe that CBS was “informed” of Axanar by anyone other than news sources like The Wall Street Journal and, of course, Alec himself. Remember that he met with CBS executives four times in the year before he was sued.

      1. Yep, four times in person, and CBS never told Alec he was going too far.
        This new trap might be totally independant of what made them change their mind and trigger the lawsuit, but the detractors are now suspect of being able to set such traps for the purpose of hate.
        They said Alec would never deliver the promised film to the donors, but hey, who tries to set him up now and make it impossible ? It is not CBS, but the haters. They are not honnest peoples, they try to manipulate us and use dirty methods, far worse than what they accused Alec of doing.
        Can we be sure haters never had any influence on the CBS (and attorney) position . I don’t think so.
        You may have your “legal eagles”, Jonathan, haters have their “immoral ravens” circling around…

  13. This is all rather surreal actually, Jonathan. “its so simple, Alec hurt them (by not making the fan film, even though he was being sued by CBS and was in no way able to make that film, part of this is confirmed by a major detractor) and now they want to hurt Alec”. Gee is this a take from a well known ST movie scene where a certain loser (with huge pecs) says “I’ve hurt you, and I want to go on hurting you…” and then at the very end gets his dumb rear killed and STILL thinks he will get him in the end? They need to just go keep rewatching the film until they realize all that hate got him exactly, uh, dead. And Kirk gets to make 4 or 5 more movies….Actually thi is really a microcosm of society and the efforts groups put into trapping and sabotaging each other to prove their unprovable points. What a boat load of wasted effort on trying to get revenge for something that is not even revengeable.

  14. The actions of those specific individuals who continue to harass and bait the Axanar production group have become WILDLY disproportionate to whatever they blame Alec and company for.

    They’re not doing this because they have to; they’re doing this because they feel like it. This is not only a prime example of “nerd rage”, but also the most mock-worthy case of it. This isn’t a crusade, this is a bitch-fest that keeps feeding on itself.

    If baby didn’t get its bottle, tough titty said the kitty.

      1. Really? I’ve come across it a few times every two or three weeks in various media.

  15. Just so we’re clear, I was the one who made the Lord Garth is Entertained video. Being a Talented person it took me about ten minutes over lunch. Sure its got a bad garbage matte edge, but its not like I’m gonna spend a lotta time on it, as I got a demanding job.

    And you are wrong that Alec has never actually reached “Sue a Hater” point For Real. He already did? Remember Jason DeBord? Prop board guy he sued for being a meany and talking s**t online? No? Maybe because Alec lost, Anti-SLAPP laws git it laughed out of court, and Alec stiffed the defendent out of the near 30k judgment he was ordered to pay. Remember, Alec never admits failure. He either boasts of a perceived success or says nothing at all. So “That Time He Sued a Hater and Lost” never ever comes up…

    And to that end, I fear Alec Peters less than I fear a quadraplegic infant.

    Lighten up, its Transformative! 😉

      1. In a post of yours, I’d have to find it, you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about something and say something about how Alec hasn’t actually put in the time and resources to “sue a hater” yet BUT HE JUST MIGHT!

        And nope, he did try. And lost. 🙂 I really have other things to do with my billable hours than to sift through your 50,000 word essays that communicate about 10 words of actual information.

        1. “I really have other things to do with my billable hours than to sift through your 50,000 word essays that communicate about 10 words of actual information.”

          And yet, you seem to read all my blogs, send me countless comments (most of which get immediately deleted for violating my rules and simply the rules of common human decency and couth), make endless posts on social media (except where you’ve been banned or muted), make 100 crank phone calls, and edit videos with Alec Peters and soft-porn…

          I’m actually beginning to wonder if you do work after all. Speaking as a person with a lot of spare time myself, you seem to have more spare time than I do! 🙂

          1. Well, c’mon. If you squeeze all of Gabe’s many posts in various places together, you get at least one Lane blog a day…maybe more! Plus he reads my blogs and all the various discussions/gripe-fests on social media…many of which go on forever. Even I don’t do that. Just earlier today, I bailed on a hair-pulling fight that started on the “Big Trek” Facebook group after only a minute of seeing where it was headed. I made an omelette instead (a tasty one with my secret home-made guacamole recipe). It was yummy. Imagine if I had stayed on social media how much time I would have lost from my day! I wouldn’t even have time left to write all these responses here! 🙂

        2. Gabe here is trying to equate what you’ve said about Alec not suing Axanar detractors and stretch it so he can include the one guy he sued for libel back before anything really began on Axanar. Generally, this gets brought up to throw meat to the detractors, using the logic that since he lost before, he’ll lose again. If that kind of logic were true, then the Giants should have won the 2016 World Series, seeing as they had won every world series played in even years this decade…

          1. As I said, Alec doesn’t have to win. Just the cost of retaining counsel and paying to go to court makes this whole endeavor not worth it, in my opinion. Although Alec was ordered to pay attorneys fees in the 2011 lawsuit, any lawsuit filed for unlawful use of image would be significantly different and MUCH less like to have attorneys’ fees awarded.

            And if it is indeed a “trap” trying to get Alec to claim copyright ownership, as I explained previously, that has nothing to do with unlawful use of image. Alec wouldn’t need to claim ownership of anything other than his image. And if the trap is to try to get Alec to sue in order to make him turn over his financials during discovery, those documents would be deemed irrelevant as the unlawfully used footage was all filmed prior to the second two crowd-funding campaigns. Alec might have to turn over records from the first $101K Kickstarter, but I’m thinking that’s not what the detractors care about.

  16. BTW, isn’t it interesting that Sandy Greenberg keeps commenting and spewing his lies? No one here believes him. And most of those who comment think he, and the other haters, need to get on with their lives. But still Sandy spews his lies. Why?

    I think that is a really interesting question. What pathology leads to the psychological need to keep attacking someone 2 years later, in a forum where everyone knows his agenda and that he is lying to make a point? Clearly it is hatred. But you have to wonder about a person who spends so much time lying and attacking someone online. Not a very productive use of anyone’s time.

    1. Are you talking about Sandy Greenberg or Donald Trump?

      (Okay, now I’ve done it! Everyone, please hold the angry “How dare you!” comments. I’m sorry for daring to bring up politics.) 🙂

  17. Well Steven mayhew is trying to petitionto stop Face book from closing axamonitor down.. i cite a post in one of the star trek groups on fb .. petition through change . org..
    Sounds to me like axamonitor is in deep stuff and it finally is catching up with them.

    1. Yeah, I don’t think I personally would have gone with a change.org petition. It just opened the door to the detractors doing the same thing. Dueling petition pettiness (see what I did there?). 🙂

  18. And Now for Something Completely Different… Jonathan, do you know who won Bjos (formerly Independent Star Trek Film Awards) 2018 presented at Treklanta? On that convention’s site I see nothing about this…

    1. Funny you should ask! Click on the HOME link above and scroll down to the first blog (or second if you don’t read this until later on Tuesday).

  19. Star Trek fans are beginning to look more and more ridiculous by the day and it has to stop.

    So some people think they are Social Justice Warriors (SJW) and in this case it seems to be Axamonitor and supporters which isn’t a bad thing because they have a case to be them because people have put their money into Axanar but the way they are going about it all is absolutely ridiculous.

    Perhaps Axanar did get drunk on suddenly being a hot shot fan production that they expanded into areas they should never have touched (Independent film claims etc = bad idea) and so fellow productions paid a price but never forget that once upon a time fan productions were made in houses and garages and there were no professionals in sight but then one production had one and suddenly five and ten professionals appeared in front of or behind the camera and suddenly it became an arms race to make the best fan production with the best people.

    This of course required money and CBS would of seen reports of films raking in donations by the stack and decided they were going to lower the boom and Axanar’s head was the one the boom hit on the noggin and perhaps they did deserve it.

    So Axanar got its wings clipped and now has to play ball the exact same way everyone else has to (or should be doing), shadowed by the SJW’s because of the past mistakes but Axanar does itself no favors by going toe to toe with the SJW’s and losing their cool and that is a bad thing to do, Axanar should not be remonstrating with people, they should be put their heads down and ticking all the boxes on the ‘to do’ list that people have been waiting and have paid for them to do.

    There should be no further boasts and there should be no further claims from Axanar, there should be no snipes and fights with people through texts or calls even if they are on the receiving end of abuse, there should just be progress and the fulfillment of previously stated intentions.

    I have no skin in the game, I have read what the Axanar, Axamonitor, Trekzone and Fan Film Factor sites and FB groups and pages write or broadcast every day and it is saddening to see what people are doing, fighting each other, taking screenshots of each other’s conversations, calling each other horrible names and each side thinks that they hold the moral compass but the reality is that they don’t.

    Axanar should be given the chance to do things right and make things right with those who jumped aboard several years ago now, if they fail to make the two, high quality 15 minute episodes and hand out every perk claimed then they deserve what the SJW’s dish out (not the personal attacks though).

    One side has to decide that all the above nastiness has to stop and the other side has to see that they’re right and follow suit, the ridiculous behaviour has to end but will anyone have the courage to start?

    1. Show a production or even work on a project and some folks might quiet down.

      1. I highly doubt it also. Once the two parts are released, there will be a whole new wave of hatred spat at Alec and crew by the likes of you. You folks just cannot leave it be.

  20. I agree with you that this “trap” is bullshit. And I do believe Alec Peter has a valid copyright claim on this stuff — although he’ll need to register it before going to court. In fact, I’m convinced that CBS went to court in part because they know someone can start copyrighting part of Trek universe and that complicates things.

    I just have an issue with this leap-to-conclusion:

    “CBS and Paramount would need to demonstrate that Alec’s actions carry some measurable harm for the studios. It’s not enough to simply “violate the terms of the agreement” ”

    There are 4 possible kinds of damages to a breach of settlement. 1) damages that were written in the agreement and the party agreed to 2) compensatory damages (those are the ones you’re thinking about) 3) punitive. Unrelated to actual monetary damages, and made to set an example. 4) nominal damages, which are given when they are no proven monetary damages

    1. You might be thinking about the legal remedies in an actual civil trial, Serge. The civil trial is over. Any breach of settlement would be determined in arbitration and would be based on remedies outlined in the settlement itself.

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