During our marathon 3-hour “Blogger Battle of Axanar,” Australian Trekzone.org blogger MATTHEW MILLER and I discussed many things, including telling the truth about Axanar…something that I noted the detractors seldom do. It’s one of the reasons I spend so much time correcting the record here on Fan Film Factor, because if I don’t, and the lies get told over and over without challenge, they can insidiously supplant the truth.
One such example came early in Part One of our podcast debate when Matthew asked me about “most” of the main cast and crew leaving after PRELUDE TO AXANAR when ALEC PETERS decided to build a studio. I challenged Matthew’s choice of the word “most,” as that’s one of those lies that’s been told and retold so many times it’s taken on urban legend status. So I counted the people who left and those who didn’t. The final score: 5 people left and 15 stayed. So “most” actually stayed. Matthew admitted in the discussion that I had “schooled” him. But really, I just stated the truth and backed it up with facts.
Which brings us to this past Wednesday, and the latest Axanar lie…this time directly from the mouth of Matthew Miller himself. It came at the end of an re-edit of our 3-hour discussion, awkwardly trimmed down to 26 minutes of “best of” clips taken mostly out of context. This was followed by a two-minute editorial wrap-up where Matt ended with a massive false statement regarding Axanar and Alec Peters. It was such an obvious lie that I had to rewind and listen a second time to make sure I hadn’t misheard…
“Irrefutable fact,” huh? In what alternate universe? Did Matthew not watch this video tour of Industry Studios…?
Did he not see the Vulcan Scene…?
But according to Matthew, the $1.5 million went towards neither [the studio nor the film]. Really, Matt? None of it??? It was WTF time…!
Obviously, it’s very easy to prove this to be a lie. After all, the following items didn’t pay for themselves:
- The giant green screen cyclorama
- The sound-proof flooring
- The sound-proof elephant doors
- The track lighting grid
- The new electrical system
- The bridge set, captain’s quarters, transporter, turbolift, and Klingon command chair
- Klingon costumes
- Camera, lighting, and sound equipment
- A video editing suite
- Carpets and office space/dressing room construction and furnishing
- A full crew to film the Vulcan Scene including actors, make-up, sound, lighting, gaffers, DPs, ADs, and PAs
- Post-production on the Vulcan Scene (Tobias Richter didn’t work for free, you know!)
- Rent, utilities, insurance, permit fees, etc.?
The list goes on and on. So saying that the $1.5 million went toward NEITHER the studio NOR the final film is like saying Donald Trump wasn’t elected the 45th president of the United States. Not everyone might be happy with that fact, but it is a fact…undeniable and irrefutable.
Of course, you can try to wiggle out of it being a fact based on a “technicality” by saying that Donald Trump only won the electoral vote, not the popular vote. But that’s pure obfuscation. Like it or not, Trump won and now occupies the White House. That’s a fact.
Matt tried a similar attempt at obfuscation. Because the full Axanar fan film was never completed (um, lawsuit?) and the studio had to be shut down down, Matt believes that all of the money that was spent is now erased from the official record. It never went toward a studio because the studio was never completed and is now gone. It never went toward sets or costumes or the filming of the Vulcan Scene because the full Axanar movie was never completed.
Um, yeah, Matt. Right. Whatever you say.
(If you want to see Matt try to double, triple, and quadruple down on the lie—and it’s a really fascinating bit of self-delusion worth checking out if you have a few moments—you can read his comments on this YouTube page where he posted the “best of” video.)
Perhaps the best rebuttal to Matt’s “logic” (or rather, lack thereof) came from the Oracle of Trek Fan Films (I’ve just given her that honorary nickname), BARBARA READER of Star Trek Reviewed:
So, you are saying that politicians who lose never ran for office, the 9 out of 10 people who attempt to make fan films and failed never attempted, the 9 out of 10 start-up businesses that fail never tried, right?
That’s pretty much the mic drop, so I won’t try to add to it. But instead, I would like to take a moment to ask WHY Matt Miller has all-of-a-sudden become the Axanar “SUPER-DETRACTOR”!
It wasn’t this way during our discussion/debate, nor in the weeks leading up to it. Matthew was actually very polite, reasonable, civil, and most of all, open-minded about me, Alec, and Axanar in general. Oh sure, we still disagreed, and sometimes even passionately argued. But Matthew listened to my points and even agreed with a few along the way…something very unusual for a detractor.
So unusual, in fact, that the other detractors have raked Matthew over the coals for it! They’re furious that he did so “poorly” (their opinion) in the debate, freely admitted to getting “schooled” by Slow Lane, and gave me way too much opportunity to make my arguments in detail while challenging me only rarely (while I challenged him almost constantly).
The detractors also harp on the fact that Matthew shared the topics we would be discussing with me beforehand, which gave me an opportunity to “prepare” (as if I don’t already have every detractor argument and accusation memorized after three years of countering them all!). Apparently, some believe it would have been better to try to do an “ambush” interview rather than an informed debate, and they assume that I would have been totally unprepared. Yep, I’m sure I would have been a quivering, stuttering wreck. Uh, huh. Sure. (Have you met me???)
Anyway, the detractors haven’t been kind to Matthew. This is only a small sampling of the vitriol they are now hurling against someone who used to be one of their own and made the unforgivable decision to be polite, civil, and open-minded with a major Axanar supporter…
Personally, I think such comments are totally unfair, unkind, unnecessary, and uncalled for. I even said so in this comment posted to one of the sites frequented mostly by detractors: “You detractors should actually be ashamed of yourselves for being so negative to one of your own (which is why Matt no longer wants to be one of your own).” I really ripped into them for being so nasty to him.
Yes, it’s true that Matthew left the Axamonitor Facebook group in frustration and disgust back in October (and even blogged about the reasons for his departure). But he’s still very much aware that those criticisms are out there. I know this because he blogged about those criticisms, as well.
Matthew is obviously hurting over this, and I can’t blame him. He went into our “blogger-battle” podcast with hopes of one outcome and instead came out—unexpectedly and disappointingly from his perspective—with something entirely different. The result, to be blunt, has left Matthew with few friends in his corner right now.
I mean, the Axanar supporters never really liked Matt to begin with because of how negative and critical he has been of the project and of Alec Peters. And Matt’s statements in the interview that Alec should have rolled over and taken a loss in the lawsuit rather than fight on (even though Alec ultimately came out ahead by not quitting) certainly didn’t win Matthew any new converts from the pro-Axanar camp.
But now he’s lost the respect of the detractors, as well (assuming detractors have respect for anything or anyone; it’s hard to tell by how often they attack not only Alec and me but also each other). And these kids can be CRUEL with a capital C-R-U-E-L…even to someone who is ostensibly on their side.
Put yourselves in Matthew’s place for a moment and think about how you’d be feeling right now. Insulted? Resentful? Alone? You don’t have to be Counsellor Deanna Troi to feel empathy right now. Anyone who’s ever been picked on or bullied has felt this way at one point or another.
So what is an Aussie blogger to do…especially one who wants to stay relevant? If you said, “Turn up the dial to 11 on bashing Alec Peters and Axanar,” you would be correct. And if you said, “Throw Jonathan under the bus a little, too,” you would get extra credit. In the above blog (the one addressing the criticisms about his performance in the discussion/debate), Matthew said the following:
I knew that his [Jonathan’s] condescending attitude towards my, and other “detractors” points of view would drive new listeners to my show.
Let me reiterate my position on this saga, Alec Peters was wrong using Star Trek IP to create a business model that had nothing to do with Axanar. He was wrong for using Star Trek IP on perks given to donors. He was wrong for profiting off his donors and loyal supporters – he paid for tyres, lunches, insurance, phone bills and flights across the United States out of donor funds (but that’s ok, because it was just a labeling error on the annual report.) And Peters was most assuredly wrong for pursuing legal action against CBS and Paramount.
And then, of course, there’s the outright lie that started this blog…plus Matthew’s subsequent comments trying valiantly to justify and defend the lie.
But the question now is: why would he do it? And I think I might know.
Matthew will probably argue with what I’m about to say (hey, we’ve debated before!), and I’m not claiming to be inside of his brain. But it seems pretty clear to me that Matthew is trying to reestablish his “street cred” as a detractor by not just returning to the fold but trying to go above and beyond in bashing Alec Peters…even if it means lying and trying to stand behind that lie. And hey, maybe it’ll work to bring him back into the detractor’s good graces (although I can’t say it’ll do much for his credibility outside of his “base”).
But this whole disappointing situation—and make no mistake, I am VERY disappointed in Matthew Miller right now—brings to my mind a theory I’ve had about the Axanar detractor community. Most of them are afraid. They’re afraid of leaving or not bashing Axanar enough and getting the same treatment that Matthew just got. The detractors are not very forgiving, but they are incredibly nasty and hurtful…and persistent about it!
So instead, it’s safer for many of them to stay “in the gang,” even if that means doing things which they know in their hearts are wrong. Oh sure, there’s some true bullies in the bunch who are simply belligerent human beings with mainly hatred, resentment, and bile in their hearts and lives. But the rest might actually be good people who are simply too afraid of their fellow bullies to risk leaving the gang for fear of retaliation. So they pretend and “perform,” they take their shots and sound all angry and righteous over Axanar no matter what happens. They pat each other on the backs, “like” all the right comments, and try to outdo each other in negativity and nastiness.
It’s like the mean-girl clique in school or gang of jocks on the yard…and Matthew is just trying to fit in with the “cool kids” again…whatever it takes.
In the meantime, the Axanar supporters are basically positive, hopeful people who believe in a man and his dream. We don’t turn on our own or insult each other if we aren’t supportive enough. We don’t live our lives trying to put others down.
Truth to tell, despite everything, I think Alec and the Axanar supporters might very well have welcomed Matt Miller as a friend if he’d only stopped the Alec and Axanar bashing.
But Matthew made a different choice, and I feel very sorry for him. I hope he can find some happiness or redemption in all the negativity, but somehow I doubt it’ll happen. Too bad…because I think that he really could have had some wonderful new, true friends.
Jonathan, I’m not alone, I never changed my position on Axanar and thank goodness we only recorded audio… because each time you condescended me I rolled my eyes.
One thing that this whole thing has proven to me is that I am a moderator, not a debator.
Speaking of which, why didn’t you ask me to facilitate a discussion between you and Carlos? You certainly sprayed him many times, trying to bait me into a response.
Also, YOU made this a BATTLE, not me… I shouldn’t have even used the word DEBATE, because it wasn’t that either.
I handed you the keys to Trekzone for 3 hours. That’s all this was.
Your comments will be challenged in the new year, but not by me.
I’m still very disappointed in you, Matthew.
As for nomenclature, the only reason I called it a “Blogger Battle” is because “The Battle of Axanar” is a thing in this fan film. I thought it’d be fun to alliterate it to “Blogger-Battle.” (I love alliteration…if you hadn’t noticed from the blog site name.) And y’know, a few times, you and I really WERE going mano a mano with some passionate arguments. But hey, I’m a scrapper and a determined debater. I regularly go all-in with my best friend David, who is a staunch conservative while I’m a tin-foil-hat-wearing liberal. We go at it with gusto while always remaining good friends and fellow Trekkies. I figured I’d get the same with you, as you and I certainly have some serious disagreements about Alec and Axanar. I’m sorry that you brought a knife to a phaser fight, but we both knew what we were signing up for. From one of our earliest e-mails on October 22, I said this:
“Actually, I was thinking what could be fun would be for us to interview each other. You ask me a question–I ask you–rinse, repeat. It’s the battle of the titans that many in the fan film community have been begging for.”
You never told me it would be something different than that, so that’s what I prepped for.
As for doing a debate with Carlos while you moderated, I would never participate in a debate where the moderator himself was biassed toward my opponent. Why sign up for two-against-one? Also, I have zero respect for Carlos. He pretends to be a journalist while presenting only one-sided negatives about the subject he reports on (the opposite of true journalism). What he really is is a pundit. It’s now been eight weeks without an Axacon blog. For a blog site that claims to “monitor” Axanar, he sure missed a major story. Heck, he even spent hundreds of dollars to be there in person. I’d have thought he could find some time in his busy schedule to write about how well everything went. After all, he’s written 4,200 words so far about our debate.
Anyway, no respect for Carlos, so no debate. I had at least some respect for you, Matthew…you walked away from the cyberbullies. And that’s why I agreed to debate you. I’m sorry that it didn’t work out the way you wanted. But I do hope that someday you can get past your elephant and other baggage and really let in what I’ve said in today’s blog.
I wish you luck and success with Trekzone.
That’s funny Matt! Back when I actually did watch your interviews I noticed that you frequently roll your eyes and look distracted no matter who your interviewing. Maybe this weekend I’ll throw together a compilation video.
I remember listening to some other podcast where you were complaining about being all alone in some other project, you were working on. I realized fairly quickly that whining is, in fact, your style… rather than owning up and standing by your work. and making others excited about it.
Until you Stand behind what you do. don’t expect to earn anyone’s respect.
And really who needs your negativity anyway Matt!?! Axanar moves forward despite the odds. And inspite of the detractors. Alec Peters has NEVER given up his dream. And that is the real story here.
PS> You should be thanking Jonathan for classing the joint up for 3 hours
If you edit together the eye-rolling video, Mickey, please share. I’d be curious to see how often he does it.
For me, the disingenuousness of Matt’s comments were more him stating that he felt himself more suited to be a moderator than a debater. And yet, here he is at the end of the video, tagging on a tough-taking two-minute monologue where he gets to have the last word with no one to challenge him. But if Matt can’t stand up for himself against someone who disagrees with him, support his “facts,” and argue for his side of the issue, then I really don’t think he’s earned the right to make those blanket “tough talk” conclusions in the first place.
At least I’m not afraid to stand behind what I say. I don’t hide behind the excuse “I’m more of a moderator than a debater” to avoid having to do the actual work of defending my positions. I do it over and over and over and over again as I take on detractor after detractor in comments here and on Facebook. I debated Matt not knowing that he’d be a “pushover”…and in fact expecting him to punch hard and coming in prepared for a tough fight.
It’s easy to “talk tough” bashing Alec Peters and Axanar if you’re only debating yourself. In fact, I’d call that “master debating.” 🙂
Thanks for watching my podcasts Mickey. I await Alec’s eventual dream off the back of donors any day now.
You said you expected it to happen in 2020, Matthew. I’m holding you to that prediction!
And I’m holding Alec to it too.
Greetings.
Maybe because I live in Spain, where every little fragment of star trek is a treasure in itself, where there are no conventions, there are hardly any fan meetings (dammit, there are hardly any fans!) And TV has NEVER broadcast the series, except TOS in the seventies, that someone take the trouble to try to make a fan film is already worthy of praise and has my full support, and more with everything against it, is like Cochrane, creating the Phoenix from A missile ,, Axanar is using the remains of a weapon of “legal destruction” as a base to leave a well of creative stagnation ,,, to boldly go where no fan has gone before ….. I find it UNEXPLICABLE, that there are so many Daystroms, who claim that only the CBStronics series will be made and we stay at home, safe, accepting what they want to bring without contributing anything … a cold company will only look at the results, it does not show affection, enthusiasm, It does not put humanity in what it does and that’s why I prefer an episode of Minard to one of Discovery, The love of what you do is not replaced by dollars. I do not understand what they expect to obtain the detractors, but I hope with all my heart that Axanar will take off and have a tail wind, for all of us who want the adventure to continue.
Sorry to extend me so much and happy Christmas
You extend yourself as much as you’d like, Patricia. Your comments are always welcome here. Feliz Navidad and Happy New Year to you.
in other words you saw me as an easier mark than Carlos and went all in.
I, being the sucker for ratings – not validation – that I am, said yes.
It is what it is. Thank God 2019 is 3 days away.
If it helps you to believe that rather than what I actually said, I won’t argue with you. Lying to yourself isn’t the same as lying openly about Axanar. The latter requires me to step up to the plate. The former is, well, that’s really just your personal problem, Matt. I’m not sure it’ll go away when the calendar changes to 2019, but I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. 🙂
Wow, that’s a new one for the detractors, playing the Martyr Card…
Tell me, Matt, would you go for a debate with Alec Peters if Jonathan was the moderator?
Didn’t think so.
yeah, I would. But Alec won’t.
As if all this was SO serious. You know me Jonathan, I was one of the original donors angry at Alec. I however received a refund of my donation so I’ve felt it only proper to stay quiet on the situation. Right now it seems to me that at this point to shut up the detractors, all Alec needs to do is produce something. This whole thing is a ‘fan production ‘ and even if Alec hoped for more st one time, that’s all it is ever going to be
I guess what I’m saying is produce something or shut up. Other fan film producers have been able to make some excellent programming in less time then Alec has had sine the agreement was reached and if he can’t stop talking ( or having you do the talking for him) then he is just wasting everyone’s time…most particularly his and yours.
I’ve recently read that something might be out by late 2020…are you kidding? Hopefully what I am hearing is untrue and i’ll Hear about the first 15 Axsnsr short Fan Film soon.
Just curious, Edward, now that you’re no longer a donor: what’s your rush? Are you also rushing Pacific 201, Starship Farragut, Captain Pike, and First Frontier? Did you Rush Space Command? That project took six years to release the first 30 minutes of a 2-hour pilot…and they’re still redoing the VFX! So are you rushing them to finish? If not, then why not? Starship Farragut raised $15,000 from fans way back in 2015 for their final episode “Homecoming.” It even has Stan Lee doing a cameo. Are you upset at all that Stan didn’t live long enough to complete it? Why don’t I hear you complaining about more fan productions that aren’t finished yet? Heck, Temporal Anomaly was funded in 2013…do you see it yet? (Don’t worry, you will…VERY soon!)
Look, Alec will finish Axanar when he finishes it…or not. Personally, I think he’ll be able to pull it off, and I’m still a donor. But you don’t see me hurrying him along. So why are you?
I posted trying to be courteous and for some reason I get attacked. And to think, you used to be the calm and rational one in the room. Oh well.
Why do I pick Axsnar to (politely) ask about and none of the others you mention? Maybe it’s because they have been quiet and calmly gone about making a fan movie. Several of them will never get made but I don’t hear them making monthly pronouncements about non existent progress, often changing their timetables from one article to another.
Why do I feel ok about my criticism even after being refunded? Maybe it’s because I see Axanar and Alex Peters as the worst thing that’s happened to a Star Trek in 50 years. He wanted to make a name for himself and honestly it seems that if he doesn’t get what he wants, he’ll be sure to take Trek down as well. He isn’t 1/2 the fan he thinks since a real fan would do everything to avoid hurting what they love.
Y’see, maybe you THINK you’re being courteous, Ed, but a paragraph like your second one above or the second paragraph of your first comment says different. “The worst thing that’s happened to Star Trek in 50 years,” huh? Worse than getting canceled in 1969 or 2005? Worse than saying, “Sure, Bill, you can direct the fifth movie…”? Worse than CBS deciding to put the new series behind a subscription-only paywall?
Look, when it comes right down to it, Edward, you’re in a teeny-tiny minority in thinking Alec Peters has been bad for Star Trek and that there’s been no progress. Folks like you were predicting that the Ares bridge set would never be completed. Now that’s it’s pretty much done and looks FANtastic, you say things like “non existent progress.” So it’s no wonder that you’re in the teensiest tiniest minority, Edward.
To be honest, most fans had no idea who Alec is. But of those who do, the vast majority are extremely supportive of him…literally thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of people. Those who believe as you do number in the, well, in the dozens…which is pretty embarrassing. (It almost makes me wonder why I pay attention to the detractors at all.) Take a look at the numbers on the latest Axanar update video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmDLKkxgj1I
34K views in 24 hours. 3.6K of those views get a thumbs-up. How many thumbs down? Just 56.
Now, just because the vast majority disagree with you, Edward, does that mean you’re necessarily wrong? Well, yes, I suppose it kinda does. But like many, you are riding an elephant that has made up its mind where to take you. So you go along, justifying the direction as you are carried. It’s nothing to be embarrassed about; we all do it. We all have our elephants. You have yours; I have mine. It’s simply that thousands more elephants are traveling alongside me while only about 100 or less are traveling with you. On the other hand, you have less traffic to deal with at rush hour! 🙂
Wow Jonathan, you’ve gotten too emotional for me. I disagree with your number of Axanar fans vs detractors and we all know those viewship numbers can be ‘negotiated ‘ with. I’ve seen toy opening videos with 5,000,000 hits…does that prove the toy is a success (or even a goof idea) ? I don’t think so. Do some research if you don’t believe me
All I’m looking for is that Alec’s elephant should stop shitting all over the internet and start producing something.
You love to bring up the Ares set…you do realize that isn’t production of any sort, rather it is pretty much building with LEGO. Especially when you have to ask someone else to build it for you!
Good luck with your son and family life, you chose the wrong elephant to ride here and as we all know it’s difficult to change elephants bid-ride.
PS. Yes I see the Axanar debacle being as bad for Star Trek and it’s fandom as any of the things you mention. What you mention were mostly bad business decisions, Axanar has hurt the fans themselves.
Well, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.
Well from the sound of it you wasted not only 3 hours of your life but a great deal more in prep but I do suppose you got some content for your site so not an entire loss as long as you didn’t have anything better to do like work, be with your family or take a really long satisfying dump with a good book.
Time and again on various subjects I have pointed out to people where there opinions are wrong. Not by countering on my own opinion but I am sure like you by using reason, logic, facts, even citations. Is this countered by similar “Reasoning” Nope at most after spouting some vitriol they go quiet. Then you see them later spounting exactly the same nonsense which seems to have happened here.
I don’t waste my time on them now at most I tell them how stupid they are and go and research it for themselves, they don’t. I wish I could say they are just ignorant but that can be fixed or they were stupid yet some are very educated people. Nope you are going up against normal human psychology and laziness, their opinions are far more important to them to change in the face of mere facts or as put more succinctly “Haters Gonna Hate”.
I used to get annoyed with this fact these people were deluding themselves in a lot of cases repeating or making up lies they had heard somewhere until I realised that nothing I said was going to change them no matter how correct I was. So why waste my time on them I was being stupid to continue.
If you are at least getting content for your site well you are ahead of the game but depressing though it is that is all you are doing. You only have the truth on your side which is not enough by any means.
People keep thinking I’m doing this to change the minds of the detractors. That’s a lost cause. I’m doing it for the fence-sitters who aren’t sure what this Axanar thing is all about. If I simply ignore the detractors and allow their lies to become accepted truths, then the uninformed out there become the misinformed. I refuse to let that happen. But it’s not a constant, never-ending battle for me. If I were continuously sparring with all the anti-Axanar detractors, the middle-of-the-road folks would quickly tune me out. So I make “events” out of it every few months–like this one–where it gets more attention. Today’s blog is already over 500 reads, and it’s only been up for 10 hours during a low-traffic holiday week.
Well I am glad you do not have unrealistic expectations and I can see you motivation is akin to pruning removing the seeds of doubt so these fence sitters don’t get deluded. However no matter how many battles these Axanar detractors win, which seems to be about zero they have already lost the war.
As a disclaimer if you like, I don’t personally know you or Mr Peters Yes I am a Star Trek fan I have even in my younger days attended a few conventions. I can’t even say I am a fan of the amatuer films, sure I find some watchable a few enjoyable even and I appreciate the dedication and hard work and in a lot of cases skill that has gone into them, but “Prelude” was and is still in a class of its own. (Which ironically is probably what has caused most of these present problems.) It certainly won me over it was simply Star Trek in a way that even some of the TV and studio attempts were not and head and shoulders above other fan attempts.
Now I am sure that Axanar even in its cut down form will actually be better. How can it not be? Mr Peters has had more time to learn and more time for his ideas to mature. Once it is out and it is the success I am sure it will be even under the restrictions that have sadly been imposed the detractors are going to look even more stupid than they do now game over, in other words war won.
I will gaze into my crystal ball and say that these fence sitter’s and a lot of the other detractors will quietly shut up and slink away but some will still continue. I am not sure how they are going to argue about a non existent film which will never get made when it is sweeping the awards but they will. But they will look as stupid as flat earthers or conspiracy nuts that believe 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government.
I will finish with one last observation those people who argue that Mr Peters has caused irreparable harm to fan films by arousing the wrath of the Studios and causing these guidelines to spring into existence. I can only say from my personal experience this has not been the case. I now watch more fan films OK still not won over to the cause if you like but after “Prelude” I have definitely watched more. If you want me and many others to watch these fan films it is easy don’t try and drag Mr Peters down just make ones as good or better than his. After all as far as I am aware he is not a professional Actor, Director, Writer or Producer In fact unless I am misinformed(I could be) he has less experience in these areas than many producing fan films at this moment.
Most fan producers, directors, writers, etc. are not professionals and have limited experience…Alec among them. Some have more experience and training. Alec’s strong decision with Prelude was to hire and surround himself with good, competent people who did their jobs amazingly well. Will the same happen with the next two episodes? I can only hope so. We shall see!
Axahaters are mentally ill and trying to reason with them is a complete waste of time. They’ve devoted their lives to roiling hatred and harassment of anyone that supports a Star Trek fan film. it is hilarious to watch them turn on each other, though.
It’s even simpler than that, Jonathan. Haters are going to hate, regardless of how inconvenient the facts are. You might as well try to “debate” a flat-earther or a Moon-landing-hoaxer. It’s so ridiculously simple to poke holes in their wet tissue of lies that it’s patently obvious logic has long fled their thought process. They have no true argument to make, and never have. It’s all driven by feelings, which are a poor substitute for actual facts. Some wish Alec to fail from jealousy, others out of petty revenge or spite, but it all boils down to hurt feelings. And, as the axiom states, “all butthurt is self inflicted.”
If I recall correctly during the original podcast you had even made a point to say (very politely) that Matthew hadn’t exactly “lied” but that he often left out half the truth to suit his position. Now, as you say, he’s dialed it up to 11 and just flat out lied to garner favor from a group that can’t accept facts that don’t fit their own narrative. That’s really is a shame.
I’m glad I went through the original podcast (and it’s many parts) it’s too bad the “best of” version has been tainted. Will their be another cut put together by someone else to create a more accurate version?
I doubt that there will be any additional edited versions. I certainly don’t feel the need to waste time on just a few hundred views. And anyway, I’m on vacation. 🙂
Oh, and the leaving out half the truth was mostly me talking about Carlos Pedraza more so than Matthew.
Ah okay, I must have misunderstood; thanks for the clarification. Have a good vacation Jonathan!
Y’know, my Mom used to say (a lot) “Never get into a pissing contest with a skunk.”
I listened to all 3 hours of the podcast and I thought Matt seemed reasonable. But to negate everything that was said and re-edit it to somehow uncover “alternate facts” is just plain disingenuous. Clearly the well was poisoned long before you even got there, and will remain so, well, pretty much forever, even after Alec releases Axanar.
So I’d say stop trying to teach the pigs to sing, Jonathan. You’re just wasting your time and annoying the pigs.
I really thought the pigs liked it. 🙂
Regardless of whatever you feel about Matt Miller, it’s clear to anyone who knows anything about film production: Alec
Peter’s and Axanar did a very, very disasterous job in pre-production to wind up improperly budgeting and squandering so much donor money without anything substantial to show for it after three years. You may consider one half-finished film set and a green screen scene progress, but it’s a far cry from the film promised.
Also, losing members of your core creative team and principal cast is the hallmark red flag of a poor production. It’s not about how many left.
The real irrefutable fact is Alec Peters is, at best, a very bad producer who mismanaged money, expectations and shouldn’t be trusted with any further funding. The things he decided to do with the production budget were ill advised and poorly planned out, otherwise they wouldn’t have found themselves sinking money into a studio they ultimately had to give up. Very, very bad planning.
The cherry on top is the fact that he, by counter-suingnthe rights holder, irreparably damaged and changed fan films for the worst. The guidelines limit and destroy the free ranging freedoms that have been enjoyed until now. The guidelines aren’t a safety net, because they don’t guarantee someone won’t get sued. They just reel everything much tighter to the vest. So much so that other functioning productions who were delivering on their promises of (Renegades, Star Trek Continues) were forced to cut their productions short or rework them entirely – all because of Alec Peter’s overreach and mishandling of his production as a producer.
That is why Alec and Axanar is met with disdain. He and his team flew too close to the sun and melted everyone’s wings. Matt Miller missed that fact.
Wow, that’s amazing. Everything you’ve just said is wrong.
Alec was actually doing a fantastic job in pre-production. But he got sued. S-U-E-D. It always amazes me how arguments like yours only work if you skip over that fact. It pretty much disqualifies you from any additional time on my part. But I will stay awake just long enough to make one more point. The guidelines were written to stop Renegades, not Axanar. Axanar was already in court (had been for five months) and wasn’t going to get made if CBS had anything to say about it. As far as they were concerned, Axanar was off the board. But Renegades had raised $850K and had just announced that they would be producing and releasing 12 half-hour fan film webisodes per year, all in-canon, with Tim Russ playing Tuvok and other Trek veterans reprising their roles.
So please don’t litter my blog with more falsehoods, Anonymous…or at least identify yourself with a real name to stand behind your b.s.
You know, guys like you give Anonymity a bad name…..
To back up Jonathan, quit acting like the lawsuit didn’t have an impact on the finances.
He didn’t “counter-sue”, he had a counter-claim for declaratory relief should Axanar be found to be fair use. Notwithstanding that, if anything fan films have flourished in the guidelines era. And CBS literally said that if you follow them, you won’t get sued. Also, if you look at the guidelines, they have more impact against the productions that were geared as series, rather than one-offs. That wouldn’t be the case if the guidelines were meant to be punitive against Axanar. Let’s also not forget that Alec Peters released an email between him and Mr. Van Citters well before the lawsuit dropped, wherein he makes the comment that many productions are “crossing lines” to Alec.
Like Jonathan said, everything you said is wrong.
Hey, that’s a point that hasn’t been picked up anywhere…. Why has Carlos not posted anything anywhere about his trip to Axacon. Normally anything Axanar related results in at least a mention somewhere but the Con he attended…… Nothing. No thing. At all. That’s very strange.
There’s nothing negative to say about Axacon other than only three dozen people showed up…which was expected and not seen as any kind of failure. Carlos has likely been trying really hard to find a way to put a negative spin on Axanar, but even if he leaves out half the story, it was still a triumph for Alec. So Carlos probably has writer’s block. According to his interview with Michael Hinman, Carlos was originally planning to be snarky and provide an Axacon report that was just a blank web blog page…sarcastically pointing out that he had been barred from attending. But then Alec invited Carlos to come join the final Axacon panel, gave him Axanar coffee as a prize in the Axanar trivia contest, shook my hand, and felt like the Axanar supporters had extended an olive branch to him. Suddenly sarcasm seemed disingenuous.
But yes, day after day that goes by without an Axacon blog (which, at this point, is stale news anyway and almost embarrassing to print two months later) is just more proof that Slow Lane is right about Carlos: he can only write negative articles about Axanar. I mean, we all know I’m right anyway…but Carlos is just helping to put an exclamation point at the end of my sentence. 🙂
There’s a couple of different frames-of-reference here.
One is “Alec Peters was wrong…” Judging right and wrong is a value judgment and people can legitimately have different opinions about right and wrong. I don’t fault that part of the sentences.
Then there’s the honesty issue. If someone ignores or makes up “facts”, or twists the facts into shapes that don’t reflect reality, then to me their dishonesty trumps (deliberate word choice) their expressed opinion.
For example “He was wrong for using Star Trek IP on perks given to donors.” That’s an value statement and I won’t object, much, as long as that applies to every other fan effort and there’s some factual evidence to back up that claim.
The “much” comes with the note that what Alec did to get permission for the effort has to be factored in as well. And failure to paint a complete picture amounts to a distortion which in my judgment invalidates the claim.
I don’t have a problem with Matthew sharing his opinions. Many times in our discussion, we agreed to disagree. I stated my views; he stated his. And I certainly haven’t been harping on anything he said in my blogs that followed the three parts of the podcast.
But once there is a lie being presented as an “irrefutable fact,” I have to step forward and refute it. Look, I’m on vacation. Right now, I have a lovely view of palm trees and golf courses (even though I don’t play golf) out my hotel window. Earlier today, I got a wonderful 80-minute massage (from a total sci-fi geek) and just enjoyed an awesome lunch with my wife. Tonight, we’re going to the movies. In other words, I’ve got a lot better things to do than blog about Matt Miller and answer comments. But a lie is a lie, and because my voice also appeared on that video Matt posted with the lie at the end, I couldn’t stay silent.
Enough of this “what happened in the past” nonsense; what’s done is done. When is the movie coming out?
Tuesday.
Jonathan,
I am surprise that you are surprise.
Nobody change, it’s very hard to be honest and sincere !
Last time you told us about elephant, I think you know
now the elephant of Mr. Miller !
Matthew’s elephant is definitely leading the rider…not vice-versa.
Honestly I find it a bit tiring that all the detractors are so positive that they are right and are unwilling to compromise in their beliefs. During this little debate I found myself agreeing with and disagreeing on both your views. We all know that the truth is a three edge sword, there is either side and the real truth is somewhere in the middle. It just seems that all the Axanar detracts want to here is their side and just plug their ears and say “La, La, La… I can’t here you!!!” when you bring up any counter argument.
It’s ironic that they refuse to hear differing opinions when elephants have such big ears! 🙂
As usual, Lane, you are selective about what comments you allow on this Peters Worship Echo Chamber. Your gloating and grandstanding only confirm that you are very small. If you really want a “debate” then I suggest going online against someone like Carlos. Hell, let Matt Miller be the moderator, that would be more to his abilities, and with a moderator it would be more of a true debate. But you’ll never do it because, like Peters, you are afraid of Carlos. You also don’t have the courage to post this on your blog echo chamber.
Hmmmm, interesting choice you’ve made there, Hal, trying to goad me into approving your comment. But actually, you’ve given me an opportunity I was hoping for to explain why I will not debate Carlos Pedraza.
I’m not afraid of Carlos. I’m taken on much worse. I’ve debated my ultra-conservative cousin—who not only supports Trump hook, line, and sinker but outsizes me by about half a foot in height and 70 pounds in weight. Compared to arguing with him, Carlos is a feather. But beyond that, I have no “fear” of Carlos’s debating skills. I’m sure he’s a master debater. Heck, I walked right up to Carlos at Axacon, said hello, shook his hand, and joked around for a bit with him. We chatted, and he was charming…which I fully expected.
The reason I won’t debate Carlos is that I don’t feel he should be rewarded for his behavior regarding Axanar and Alec Peters. A debate with me would give Carlos a much louder and wider-ranging megaphone to spread his accusations and rumors and half-truths about all things Axanar. Why should I help Carlos reach more ears? I already have way more readers than he does. Alec has more than I do! Heck, the latest Axanar Update was posted to YouTube less than 24 hours ago and is already up to 30K views (with 3.3K likes…and only 52 thumbs down from the few dozen detractors out there). My blog today is currently at just over a thousand views. Carlos is lucky to break a hundred.
So if Carlos is struggling to get his anti-Axanar message out, then why on earth (or in space) should I help him? My message is getting out just fine; I don’t need a YouTube debate to help spread my gospel. And Alec Peters certainly doesn’t. Heck, his Axanar update has added another 850 views just in the few minutes I’ve been typing up this answer! (Just checked as I’m doing an editing pass.)
And thus am I sorry to disappoint you, HAL, but no debate with Carlos. It wouldn’t even be a debate–just two monologues crossing each other in cyberspace. And you already know exactly what we both would say. Neither of us has had new material in years. 😉
You can try to paint it as me being “afraid” (which is really funny, considering how much I love to talk and love the spotlight!). But really, I just didn’t feel the need to come by in my curly-wurly and ask Carlos if he needed a ride. Let him build his own audience without riding my or Alec’s coattails.
He may be a master debater, but he will never be a cunning linguist, given his proclivities….
I love how the most vitriolic people tend to post anonymously….
It makes them feel safe. In the real world, they’re very insecure and afraid of their own inadequacies. They even hate their real names because, deep down, they hate themselves and their unsatisfying lives.
Those of us with confidence and satisfaction in our own lives aren’t afraid to identify ourselves and stand behind our words. Right, Hubcap? 😉
Right!
And my nickname is the worst kept secret of all time!
My nickname was Flaptain…but that’s actually a pretty well-kept secret, Hubcap. 😉
“Axahaters: The Petulance”.
I suppose that re-hashing the “should Axanar have fought back?” argument is pointless now. Especially since most Axahaters SEEM to only say that as a way to mask their TRUE sentiment: “Axanar shouldn’t have SURVIVED”!
Sore fragging losers. Can they refocus this outrage AT A FAN FILM towards something more worthwhile now? We’d like to get on with our lives.
Yeah, why not get pissed off at Kevin Spacey or something? I used to really love watching him act in stuff! 🙂
Where are the comments?
Which comments, Ed?
More denial of reality
I wrote a long comment on this. I also wrote about the interview. In total it ran to a 1000 words. I expounded on the various points and reached a conclusion that the truth lies somewhere between the two, much nearer your position but not at it exactly. But I looked at it and didn’t post. It won’t change anyone’s mind. Yours, the detractors, and as for the neutrals like me I think we’re big enough to listen to the points and reach our own conclusion. Matt’s reaction is indicative of anyone driven to write blogs, without an audience they’re nothing, he’d lose his core audience unless he did what he did. Wrong as it might be. Matt has no one to blame but himself for not being prepared for a proper debate.
I write the following with sadness, not anger. But I’m really here to state, on behalf of what I hope is the silent majority, that I’m sick of this. Really sick of it. It’s pathetic. If it were me I’d stop writing these pieces, they don’t do you any good and text is no medium to have a back and forth debate. That’s why I enjoyed the verbal interview (at the time!).
Please, please drop this. Rise above it. I love the other stuff you’ve written. Please read that line again. I love the other stuff you’ve written. This is a great site most of the time. But you’re being dragged down a level that does you no favours and loses you respect. If you must do something write a tight piece with all your arguments on and refer people to that with a single line, nothing else. We’ve heard this all before. You’ve mentioned your son on here so I can safely say you really do have better things to do.
But who am I kidding? I think you’ll carry on. But I’ve written what I’ve written, useless as it might be, fooling myself that it’ll make a difference. It’s an easy trap to fall into isn’t it? If this goes on, it pains me, but I’ll have to walk away as I can’t keep seeing these pieces popping up from time to time. Real pity.
Alastair, my friend, just because you see the blogs, it doesn’t mean you have to read them. 🙂
If my detracting the detractors isn’t to your liking or upsets you, then by all means, skip those blogs. I won’t take it personally. My problem isn’t so much with people not liking Alec or Axanar so much as them lying about it or him. I just don’t like lying in general, and I stand up against it. Not all the time, mind you, but I can’t ignore it completely. That’s just not who I am. I’m sorry that I can’t be who you want me to be, mate.
As for Jayden, I write most of my blogs while he’s at school or sleeping. My day begins with making him breakfast and lunch and then taking him to school. The next six hours are mine to blog or run errands, and do my part-time job from home. I pick Jayden up at 3 and take him to after school activities. We get home, and it’s homework time. He gets to play a little om his iPad, then it’s time for piano practice. I make him dinner, read him Harry Potter while he eats (we’re up to book five), and then we watch Star Trek while I do cardio for a half hour. Then it’s upstairs for a shower and into bed. By this time, Mommy has gotten home, talks to Jayden about his day, and sings him to sleep while I’m back downstairs blogging or making dinner (the order toggles). A little TV, a little dinner, and a little more blogging. Lather, rinse, repeat. On weekends, we work on his YouTube channel or do other things outside the house. It’s possible to have a blog AND be a dad…at least so far for me. 🙂
As for this latest blog rant about Matthew, we’re on vacation this week. Jayden is staying with his grandparents while Wendy and I are at a nearby resort. It’s lovely and gives me even more time to blog. Just wait until you see my 2018 year-in-review blog. After that, a couple of great interviews are coming, plus a blog update about the Dr. Seuss/Star Trek mash-up lawsuit, an update about the DS9 documentary, an update about Renegades, and a fascinating look into video piracy.
I might be on vacation, but that just means more time for blogging! 🙂
Thanks for the great reply. I know I don’t need to read them! 🙂 But the dam things keep sucking me in!!! Yes, I will look forward to the other stuff. And I am going to try and skip these from now on – and, granted, it is my job to do that – you can of course write what you like. I just don’t want you to lose your sanity to this. 🙂 But I do respect your motives.
Great lifestyle by the way! I’m envious. My son is learning piano too. But my job in this is to persuade him to sit down and get on with it then my better half helps him actually do it. What’s more, I’m a veteran Harry Potter book at bedtime reader, like Stephen Fry, I’ve been through the lot! For what it’s worth, Book 5 was the hump, over long and short on plot development. We were glad to finish it in the end – so you have my sympathy if it’s a bit of a slog. Get through that, as you’re no doubt aware, and you and your son are in for a terrific ride to the finish.
Actually, at least in the first six chapters, Phoenix is much better than I remember. But yeah, Harry turns into a bit of a dick in book five…typical teenager! 🙂
I don’t plan to do much more detracting the detractors in the near future…although ya never know. However, I will endeavor not to lose my sanity.