My love/hate relationship with MIDNIGHT’S EDGE… (editorial)

“The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth!”  Picard said those eleven words to Wesley Crusher in season five of TNG, but for me those were words I’d already been living by for a quarter century.  I don’t hate much in my life, but I do hate lies.  It’s one of the reasons I call out Axanar detractors when they make up provable falsehoods and why I publicly correct even my own readers when they say things like James Cawley used crowd-funded donations to build his TOS sets (he didn’t).

So what do I think about MIDNIGHT’S EDGE?

For those of you who aren’t familiar with it, Midnight’s Edge (and its sister podcast Midnight’s Edge After Dark) is a YouTube channel made up of hundreds of videos—most of them very well-produced—from different voice-over “reporters”covering films and TV shows from the sci-fi, fantasy, horror, and superhero genres.  They bill themselves as “spin-free analysis of Hollywood corporate politics, film & comics.”

Well, kinda.

I will admit to only watching the videos they’ve made covering the behind-the-scenes “ugliness” of Star Trek: Discovery.  And as I said, the quality of their graphics, sound, background music, transitions, and the organization of information is extremely good.  I’m never bored and usually am quite engrossed for the entire extent of these 20-to-30 minute long videos.  And that’s probably part of the reason these folks typically get views in the tens or even hundreds of thousands (occasionally even cracking a million!).

But every time I watch an episode ofMidnight’s Edge, I have to stop and ask myself: “Is this really going on?”  I mean, it’s usually so JUICY—the intrigue, the back-biting, the incompetence, the panic at CBS!—that a cynical part of me certainly wants it to be true.  Those with a passionate dislike for CBS and Discovery will likely get an emotional rush of satisfaction to see things unraveling behind the scenes at All Access as the house of cards appears to be crashing down.

But is it all, in fact, true…or are fans being duped?

Right now on the FAN FILM FORUM Facebook group, we’ve found ourselves needing to poll our members whether or not to continue allowing posted links to the latest Midnight’s Edge videos featuring “news” about Star Trek: Discovery.  Personally, I’m not comfortable censoring anything that isn’t rude and crude, insulting, or patently false.  And most of the time, I can’t say with any kind of confidence that the information on Midnight’s Edge is completely (or even partially) false.  But I can’t say I’m 100% confident it’s all true either (hence, my love/hate relationship with it).  But in the absence of being certain, I’d rather not censor…although I will abide by the votes of the group membership.

Why censor links to Midnight’s Edge, you ask?  Unfortunately, these “inside scoops,” leaks, and rumors tend to paint CBS and Discovery in a very bad light, and they bring out the “I toldja so!” side of many anti-Discovery Trekkers.  Meanwhile, those fans who really like the new Trek series and want to support CBS tend to respond in the way one would expect…and things explode into ugliness from there.

Already, a small number of other Trek-related Facebook groups have banned posts about Midnight’s Edge, and Fan Film Forum might or might not add ourselves to that list.  (If you’re gonna vote, you’ve got until this Sunday.)

The problem with Midnight’s Edge is that, like “reality” TV and professional wrestling, it’s hard to know what’s real and what isn’t because Midnight’s Edge mixes truth and facts almost seamlessly with leaks and rumors…so seamlessly that you often don’t even notice when something they say isn’t attributed to an actual source.  And sometimes those rumors, often stated confidently as foregone conclusions, turn out to be inaccurate or even completely false.

For example, as this video shows (warning: it’s quite vulgar) at the 27:45-29:15 mark, “rumors” had it during early 2017 that both AKIVA GOLDSMAN and ALEX KURTZMAN were out at Star Trek: Discovery.  And yet both were later listed as executive producers throughout season one, and Kurtzman is the new Trek Czar at CBS.  The above video spends an hour rattling off everything that Midnight’s Edge either got wrong or outright lied about prior to the summer of 2017.

But the problem is that not everything that Midnight’s Edge says is wrong or untrue.  And the stuff that may or may not be true is often said with such gravitas and certainty that it SOUNDS like it’s true.  Often, Midnight’s Edge states that something is a rumor, but not always…and that’s a problem (for me, at least).

Let me show you what I’m talking about through some specific examples from the latest Midnight’s Edge video, released on November 3.  Here’s the video for reference…

Now, let’s pull out some facts and rumors and look at them more closely.  I’ll provide the time code so you can jump to the points I’ll be analyzing…

Star Trek: Discovery was green-lit only as a means to draw subscribers to the streaming service CBS All Access.”

This was never a secret or some crazy conspiracy theory.  CBS needed content for All Access, and Star Trek seemed perfect.

“Netflix paid so much for the international distribution rights that they effectively paid the full cost of producing the first season.”

Netflix paid about 75% of the cost.  They ended up paying about $6 million per episode (according to the L.A. Times), and the actual cost of production was closer to $8 million per episode (also according to the L.A. Times).  So CBS invested about $30 million of its own money into the 15 episodes of Star Trek: Discovery‘s first season…and that’s not chump change!

“Netflix made it abundantly clear to CBS that, unless they were given a considerable reduction in price, they would not be paying for season 2.”

Although a wonderful “wish fulfillment fantasy” for all those CBS-haters out there, this statement isn’t credited, and I can’t find anything online from a reliable media source confirming it.  And this is the first example of a truly objective problem I have with Midnight’s Edge: the above statement isn’t attributed to rumor or an unnamed source.  It’s simply stated as fact.  It could very well be completely made up by the video’s creator(s).  It sounds true, but it could be total B.S. (especially considering that Netflix is paying not only for Discovery but also for rights to the entire Star Trek television catalogue, and that’s a valuable commodity for them).  Netflix could well be paying exactly what they did last year…or not.

“Dixon extrapolated the numbers further.  He estimated the total viewership numbers was a maximum of 780,000 viewers per episode.”  MOSTLY TRUE

And here, Midnight’s Edge actually attributes the statement to a source, in this case COLIN DIXON of VideoInk.  And the number is close to the number of views reported to me by an acquaintance who works at CBS of between 250,000 and 500,000 views on All Access (no idea about Netflix) per episode.  Of course, now I’m citing an “unnamed source” (if I name the person, they will likely be a former employee of CBS)…so take what I say with a grain of salt, too.

“Writer and producer Akiva Goldsman was, as of October 2017, adamant that Spock would never appear on screen in Star Trek: Discovery.”

And again, Midnight’s Edge reports a verifiable fact and even provides a screen-cap of the internet article.  Good!  Unfortunately, that move allows Midnight’s Edge to sneakily slip this in next…

“CBS executives reportedly demanded the Enterprise and familiar faces associated with it be brought in to save the day when Discovery underperformed.”

Note the subtle use of the word “reportedly.”  Reported by whom, though?  This time, Midnight’s Edge doesn’t cite any source.  And while this rumor might be true (I can imagine that some “course corrections” for Discovery were decided at the higher levels), it’s not been reported anywhere officially that I can find.

“The original ending that was filmed for season one reportedly featured Mirror Georgiou recruited to Starfleet’s clandestine operation Section 31…”

Back in March, the famous Section 31 “secret scene” discussed above was shown to fans at WonderCon in Anaheim, CA.  So, yes, it was filmed and not used.  So in this case, “reportedly” becomes “most likely.”  And in fact, most of what is said over the next minute of the video is also probably correct—except this…

“While the series’ focus would still be on Burnham and the Discovery, it would attempt to win viewers back by bringing in the Enterprise, Pike, Number One, and Spock…and build up to ‘The Cage.'”

You can’t “build up” to “The Cage” because Star Trek‘s first pilot episode took place three years BEFORE the finale to Discovery‘s first season.  Also, show-runner Alex Kurtzman revealed at the New York Comic Con: “You guys like Talosians? We should see some.”  Since Pike met the Talosians for the first time in “The Cage,” season 2 of Discovery most likely won’t be “building up” to that episode so much as following up on that episode.

7:52 – 10:30

There’s way to much to quote, but here Midnight’s Edge does one of the things it does best: throws a mix of facts and rumors and guesses at you so quickly that your mind likely doesn’t bother to think about what might or might not be true.  The firings are true, and the going over budget is true (according to many media sources).  The designers of the Discovery Klingons did, indeed, tell fans in Las Vegas that it was Bryan Fuller’s instruction to them to make the Klingons hairless.  And the part about explaining the lack of hair on Discovery Klingons was also discussed at New York Comic Con.  But the leaks about poor results for early test screenings?  There’s nothing anywhere in the media about that.  Might be true, might be false…no way to know for sure.

“Allegedly, the only motivation for making the shorts was to sell them to international distributors—most notably Netflix—at an additional cost to bring in some much-needed cash into the production.  [snip]   The shorts were allegedly offered as a package to Netflix for $40 million…a sum CBS thought Netflix would agree was peanuts and fair once divided among their entire subscriber base.  Alas, Netflix did not agree and laughed them out of the room.  CBS then reduced the price to $35 million…then $30 million…then $25 million…then $20…then $15.  Netflix still weren’t interested at any price point CBS were willing to go down to.”

Fortunately for Midnight’s Edge, this snippet starts out with “allegedly” and then adds an additional “allegedly” for good measure.

So the only motivation for making the Short Treks was to sell them to distributors, huh?  Well, let me provide another “allegedly” for you—direct from my “unnamed source” at CBS—and you can decide which sounds more likely.

The shorts were actually designed for NFL football watchers…allegedly (wink, wink).

Yep.  The problem with the timing of Discovery‘s season two debut on January 17 (my birthday, by the way!) is that football season is nearly over.  And NFL football is what is currently driving the majority of subscribers to CBS All Access, and it’s also what they’re watching in numbers quadruple-or-more than Star Trek: Discovery (depending on the game).  The problem is that most of these football fans stop watching All Access once the playoffs start in January.  I don’t know for sure if these viewers cancel their subscriptions until the next football season begins in September, but I wold guess at least some of them do.

So CBS needed a way to get those football fans to stick around and watch Star Trek: Discovery after the NFL season had effectively ended.  That wasn’t a problem last year when the first 9 episodes of Discovery aired DURING football season.  But this year, these viewers might be gone by the time Discovery debuts.  So what better way to give them a “taste” of Star Trek (to get them hooked) than to release four Short Treks DURING football season?


As for the asking of $40 million for Short Treks, that’s kinda preposterous to imagine for several reasons.  First, Netflix paid $90 million last year for the entire Star Trek TV library plus 15 hour-long episodes of Discovery.  It seems unlikely that CBS would have asked for as much as $40 million, even as an opening offer, for just 75 minutes of original content.  And as enticing as it might be to imagine Netflix executives laughing as the embarrassed CBS executives scurry out of the conference room, I’m afraid those sorts of scenes only happen in the movies…allegedly.  Remember: these are adults, each working for billion-dollar corporations.

And almost certainly CBS would stop going back to the well and not continue lowering the asking price in $5 million increments all the way down to $15 million dollars.  This isn’t some sidewalk bazaar in a third-world country.

TrekMovie, which I generally find to be a much more reliable source, conjectures: “It is possible that the format of one short episode each month is an issue. Netflix does have certain requirements for short-form entertainment (short content is required to be bundled up into longer compilations), as well as showing preferences for bingable content.”  To me, this sounds just as likely, if not more so, than the dramatic laughing-CBS-out-of-the-room scene that Midnight’s Edge painted.

The rest of the video is mostly responsible, fact-based reporting on the scandal and subsequent departure of Les Moonves from CBS, his replacements, and a certain amount of uncertainty on the CBS board of directors.  And it’s all pretty much true.  The remainder is just some conjecture about possible futures for CBS, Viacom, and Star Trek, and is presented as just that…conjecture.

So what’s my final verdict on Midnight’s Edge?

It’s hard to say.  I certainly don’t believe everything it tells me.  But then again, much of what Midnight’s Edge presents is clearly labeled as “leaks,” “rumor,” “reportedly,” and “allegedly.”  So let the buyer beware.

Like midnight itself—which is both “night” (it’s the middle of the night) and also “morning” (since it’s now 12:00 AM)—Midnight’s Edge walks in two worlds at the same time.  It’s reporting on actual news and facts while simultaneously passing along gossip, rumor, conjecture, and potentially complete fabrications.  Deceitful?  Duplicitous?  Perhaps.  Welcome to the wonderful world of click-bait, folks.

But as long as Midnight’s Edge identifies the rumors with “allegedly” and “reportedly” and doesn’t credit a source, they can pretty much get away with saying whatever they want to.  And it’s up to the rest of us whether or not to believe them.  If we had accepted back in 2017 that Akiva Goldsman had been fired and Alec Kurtzman walked away from Discovery, then shame on Midnight’s Edge for fooling us.  But if we blindly accept everything they tell us and get fooled again…then shame on us.

37 thoughts on “My love/hate relationship with MIDNIGHT’S EDGE… (editorial)”

      1. Of course not. This is a TV show. But the MO is the same. Report half truths or flat out false items, whip folks into a frenzy that are too lazy to do the research themselves and then laugh at them.

  1. Thought this was “Fan Film Factor”, not “CBS Film Factor”? The behind-the-scenes shenanigans going on with STD have infinitesimal relevance to Fan Filmmakers, even those plotting fan films in the Discovery mindverse. Unless MidEdge starts making videos on fan films, their content shouldn’t even be on the radar here in the first place.

  2. To be fair, I read only until the video embed. But I get the gist: people have an increasingly difficult time separating fact from fiction, news from rumour. People act like they did in the cinema a century ago when the mere sight of a train steaming at them triggered the cowardly screams and fight from the darkened theatres, and the subsequent angry patrons who felt violated by the very experience they paid for and were promised. Or the people who mistook the soap opera actors for the soap opera characters they portrayed, deriding some and lauding others; or those that were surprised that Mariette Hartley and James Garner were not married.

    Well, what’s to do? Does it really come to censorship? Is it really the only way…? I write to you from the land of the USSR where censorship was the way. I am old enough to remember how badly that was reviled in the USA. But in the USA, the mainstream news pumps out propaganda straight out of an acid flashback. There is even a video meme about it. I understand there is going to be a civil war between SJWs and Nazis at any moment – both sides backed by George Soros and Kathleen Turner.

    In my own corner, crowdfunding a hand up to get my “White” family home to Canada I get both ze Nazis and zur SJWs openly and privately hating on me: one because of the colour of my skin and the other because of my need – totally disregarding (1) my situation, (2) how I got to be so situated, and (3) the current plan to get us on our feet. (The way I figure it) 1, 2 & 3 should be under heavy scrutiny. Alas, they are not. I have been accused of being a scammer and being a cop in the same universe. At least “Mirror, Mirror” had a rational explanation for such a dichotomy of perception [and that was in the land of fiction]!

    So I can totally, deeply grok this. But what can you do when people are obviously so stupid?! Where is the self-regulating “community” that is so weak that it cannot self-censor? Is a parental governor so necessary that everyone must be treated like spam because that’s the lowest common denominator? If you do not censor them, do they lack the basic mental wheels of critical thinking before they post the most ridiculous, shameful comments? Have people been dumbed down to such a low bar of acuity that they cannot recognise fact from fiction? Is their attention really no better than goldfish that they can no longer learn the difference between the one and the other?

    When “even bad publicity is good publicity” can anyone be bothered with maintaining a good reputation? When being “first!” to comment and a bunch of LIKES takes over the seat of truth, what is the future? Soviet-style censorship?

    It sadly seems so, Jonathan. And I commiserate. Depressingly, we know the destination that step of parental governance inevitably takes us as a community.

      1. Aye. IMHO that would be the high road, Jonathan. But how long will it be before comments sections are derailed by those (lovers or haters) who cannot keep fact and fiction separate? How many people are now saying freedom of speech except when it is not popular to speak?! They have lost the very notion (forget the idea) behind the freedom being guaranteed.

        And, yet, people /are/ like children in the sense that their thinking ability is underdeveloped or not developed in some cases I have come across on The Internet. It seems this podcast is selling itself to the adult-immature market. They are affluent and, as the saying goes, “a fool and his money soon part ways.” (Somewhere in this story is the podcast making money, perhaps by views, sponsors or direct donors.) If my experience over the past 2.5 years in crowd funding is anything to go by, I doubt this affluent crowd could be reached with actual news that requires more time in thought than has a goldfish.

        Could the high road of “giving a dog a good name” (to hearken back to Dale Carnegie’s book) even work today with so many (old and young) dogs unable to learn even the simplest of tricks?!

  3. It’s interesting that those who are attempting to extend censorship in the group are not attempting to censor those who shill for Discovery or the JJ films. When the group was Small Access it was hijacked by shills for new Trek, to the extent that the purpose of the group was changed.
    No one is attempting to force anyone to watch Midnight’s Edge, it is, and should be a matter of choice.

    1. Oh, Fred, Fred, Fred…

      No one “hijacked” Small Access. I was the one who started it, and I was the one who changed it. I am anything BUT a shill for new Trek or Discovery. I have HUGE problems with both of them…and I blog early and often about my opinions and feelings in the matter. Granted, I don’t “hate” the new movies, the All Access Trek series, CBS, nor Paramount…but I’m far from being anything close to a cheerleader either. 🙂

      The reason I changed the purpose of the group was simple: we failed. I was hoping to exert some pressure on the studios to ease the fan film guideline restrictions–not all of them, but at least a few like the 15-minute/no ongoing series rules…oh, and the “no professionals” rule, which I still believe is unenforceable under California labor law. But despite “failing,” we still had a FANtastic group of people, many of whom loved Star Trek (and other genre) fan films. Why break up the brand just because we didn’t get a huge recording contact? Can’t we still perform our music?

      And so I transitioned Small Access to Fan Film Forum…linked obliquely and alliteratively to my blog Fan Film Factor while still being very much its own entity. Yep, some folks left in disgust when the change happened. Others joined later on never realizing the roots of the group and probably not caring. Currently, we have just shy of 1,400 members, and it’s a great group. While I’m sad that Small Access didn’t succeed in our initial goal of changing the guidelines, I have no regrets for trying, nor for the decision to change the name and the focus to a group honoring and celebrating fan films.

  4. As you say Midnight’s Edge quite clearly describe their videos as speculation or interpretation. I have found the channel to be pretty accurate on STD and other franchises.
    As a member of the group I hope that I’m allowed to say that I think the most even handed way to deal with this is to either ban all discussion of STD and JJ Trek or allow it all. I can see the argument that the TV series and movies are off topic in a fan film discussion.

    1. Our rules state the following:

      “Members of this group are welcome and encouraged to post anything they like…although we prefer content relevant to STAR TREK and FAN FILMS. It’s okay to post about DISCOVERY or any other STAR TREK series, the actors, novels, merchandise, etc…and fan film news and discussions can be from any franchise–TREK, STAR WARS, SUPERHERO, HARRY POTTER, SCI-FI, FANTASY, HORROR…whatever. However, our focus does remain STAR TREK FAN FILMS. We are simply not exclusive to it.”

      We’re not looking to change those rules in any significant way. But we are considering keeping one specific topic—Midnight’s Edge—off of Fan Film Forum. Personally, I’d rather not censor. But if the majority votes for it, I won’t stand in the way (unless it’s razor-thin close–like one vote–in which case I think we really have to be careful what we decide to do). The problem is that ME tends to polarize fans and can lead to a lot of nastiness, and we try to keep nastiness limited.

      1. The thing that leads to nastiness is calls for censorship. The only person using profanity is the group is the person proposing censorship. The problem is not Midnight’s Edge but the fact that someone wants to shut down any criticism of new Trek

        1. Well, I criticize new Trek, James–quite often, in fact!–and no one is trying to shut ME down! 🙂

          I think the issue here is twofold:

          1) Midnight’s Edge doesn’t always opt for reliable (or sometimes any) sourcing of their rumors…rumors that all too often stretch credibility and wind up being proven patently false. Granted, anyone is allowed to make up “fake news,” but if we all simply buy into it hook, line, and sinker, then as a community, we are lessened.

          2) Because Midnight’s Edge presents such an ominous and defeatist view of the current state of Star Trek, those on the “Screw, CBS!” side of the fence tend to get all gloaty and in-your-face about it. Those who support CBS efforts then get defensive–and a good offense is the best defense. And on and on! Just look at how many folks are commenting just on the poll itself…all quite passionate.

          That said, I voted for no censorship personally. That’s not a trigger I want to pull. But we’ll let the members make the final decision…not just one member but dozens (hopefully more by the time the survey ends).

          1. If censorship is extended for Midnight’s Edge ( and I vehemently oppose it) then it should also be applied to those who blindly cheerlead for new Trek.
            Also I think there would be an equal number of comments on attempts to censor anything. Censorship is the contentious issue, not any particular youtube channel.

          2. The issue isn’t that Midnight’s Edge is for or against, Discovery, James. I’m not sure that you’re getting that. The issue is one of presenting rumor (sometimes false rumor) as some kind of hard-core reporting. If a video were to talk about how well Discovery is doing and reported more than 10 million views on All Access per episode and rumors that CBS will be launching both a Captain Sulu and Captain Worf series, that would be similar to what Midnight’s Edge is doing. The “look at how bad everything is!” reporting (if you can call it that) by Midnight’s Edge serves to instigate confrontation between supporters and detractors. They get…well…edgy. 🙂

            Anyway, I also don’t want censorship. But I don’t want to have an argument based on “if/then” theories or “what aboutism.” Right now, this discussion and poll are simply about Midnight’s Edge…which is a very unique animal in fandom.

          3. Hi Jonathan,

            I am not entirely sure this is “a very unique animal in fandom,” not according to my experience which, admittedly, does not include Star Trek or the medium of film/video in general. In tabletop role-playing, this sort of mistaking rumour for news is everyday. In my personal experience, likewise, everyday. People, whether they are presenting or receiving a presentation, cannot distinguish news from rumour it seems. It’s like the Society Page has become the model for the Front Page and no one at all notices.

            If I were running a news network, much of the news that gets on simply would not. On reflection, in those above terms, I would not consider it an expression of censorship but an abrogation of responsibility to my audience if I let rumour masquerade as truth.

            Maybe this situation is different with Trekkies, or Trekkers (pardon my nomenclature) but I doubt it. And it is a much larger issue, of course, but one that your blog here brings into sharp focus.

  5. @Jonathan Lane I don’t envy your position, either in having to censor Midnight’s Edge (should the majority vote that way) OR alternatively in having to deal with heated commentators who are unable to keep a civil tone when discussing ‘heated” topics.

    As a general note; when I watch M.E. I tend to go into the episode with the assumption that everything they say is in fact just a RUMOR whether or not they explicitly state it as such at the time of recording. Far more entertaining that way and if things prove to be wrong or “not completely accurate” as some might say then it’s no big deal; after all it was just ENTERTAINMENT nothing to be taken too seriously.

    1. It would be nice to get some reliable news out of CBS, but right now, they’re primarily all about the hype. And that’s understandable. No one wants their potential (paying) audience to think they’re buying a ticket on the Titanic. That said, I’d been hearing a lot of contradictory things about what’s going on at CBS at the moment. Were I to share it all, I’d be a lot like Midnight’s Edge. But I prefer to limit what I share until I can verify it from at least two independent sources or else from one trusted source.

  6. I applaud your integrity and open mindedness in catering for all viewpoints and being egaliterian. I’m afraid that I can’t agree that Midnight’s Edge is a special case at all. In your facebook group someone posted a video that begins with a very insulting and rude personal attack on the Midnight’s Edge team, so I’m struggling to see that veracity or the tone of linked content is the issue.
    The problem is that you are beginning from a false premise. That there is a NEED to discuss censorship. There isn’t. Obviously censorship may be needed in extreme cases, but Midnight is not extreme.
    There is an agenda behind those calls for censorship, even if its not yours.

    1. I likewise felt turned off by the vulgarity of the Tex Trek podcast raking Midnight’s Edge over the coals. I almost stopped watching it myself out of disgust, but I’m glad I stuck with it the whole way, James, as it did do an amazingly thorough job of calling out every falsehood that Midnight’s Edge posted (either as rumor or sometimes even painted as fact). Yeah, the Text Trek guy needs to wash his mouth out with industrial strength windex, but his fact-based reporting on Midnight’s Edge (something sorely lacking on M.E. itself) was devastating. I’m not surprised that Dave Haegney feels the way he does and reached the conclusions he did. I almost felt that way myself after watching the whole video!

      But then I realized that I needed to present a blog that wasn’t one-sided and instead acknowledge the items of truth and credited sources that M.E. does feature. That’s why it’s a love/hate relationship. They do good, and they do, well, not evil per se, but certainly questionable practices. And so I dissected the latest episode myself, item by item…some truth, some rumor, and some WTF-are-you-kidding me???

      But yes, I do feel there is a need to discuss censorship…or at least poll before making that call. The admins typically make a lot of choices FOR the members. If we put everything up for a vote, there would be polls every week (which, ironically, is how our group started back in 2016). But this one was a major enough issue that I felt the members should have their say. It may or may not have been the right call–I don’t know–but it was the call that I made, James.

      1. fair point, it’s your blog. I’m not convinced that tex trek should be taken at face value either, and given the number of likes/dislikes I’m not alone.

        1. It’s not a question of face value, James. For all its vulgarity, Tex Trek did an excellent job of itemizing and sourcing its facts. There were a few places where colorful metaphors were inserted, but when it came to debunking Midnight’s Edge, the video was thorough and objectively factual. Have you watched the entire thing yet? If not, let’s table our discussion/debate until we’re both completely familiar with all of the facts and arguments that Tex Trek presented.

  7. You know, here’s a bit of truth for supporters and detractors alike.

    Just because you don’t like an answer. doesn’t mean it’s not the truth.

    Personally, I’ve always found Midnight’s edge to me reasoned and reasonable. My guess is that they are quoting different sources and have different resources than Fan Film Factor has.

    That said, I do know they had something of a dust-up within the Youtube community a year or so ago. which cost them a lot of viewers. Since them, they have worked hard to restore faith in their channel.

    As far as the FFF Facebook page goes, I removed myself from all those groups sometime back, it wasn’t due to Midnight’s edge. It was due to the childishness of many members of the group that have to bomb every comment… It started to remind me a lot of Monty Python’s Argument Clinic. And I just had to walk away.

    Bottom-line for me if you’re not going to censor group members, for being, how is it that AP would put it? Then you shouldn’t censor sources no matter where they come from.

    The truth will come out in the end, and people can make up their own minds.

    1. Just want to mention that Fan Film Forum is usually very civil. We have rules of conduct, and they do get enforced. We also allow multiple chances for members to redeem themselves, but not infinitely. A handful of members have been banned, but the vast majority behave very respectfully to each other, Mickey. Oh, and the poll (which closes in about four hours) looks like it’ll be 2-to-1 not to ban Midnight’s Edge.

  8. P.S.

    James Cawley Did use fan raised money to finish building out his Desilu studios replica… Then became a licensee and charges admission for people to see them. at prices of up to $1000… You can argue semantics all you want, but that’s the bottom line.

    Sans Fanfilms… Notice how there’s nothing on the website about those film-classes from 6 months ago.

    1. When you say “finish,” are you referring to the lat few touches on Engineering and the third room of Sickbay? That’s, at best, less than 5% of the sets crowd-funded, Mickey. And even then, it’s unclear that crowd-funded money actually went into those finishing touches. Money was spend MOVING the sets to the new building in 2015, yes, but I’d put those sets down to privately-raised dollars, not crowd-funded dollars.

      1. Let me be very clear then…. they raised money to finish the engineering area. And complete the Desilu set replica.. supposedly to make more and better fan films. So if they didn’t keep their word then It’s a problem, they should be called on… Even if it’s 1 matchstick worth of set.

        1. I don’t really agree. New Voyages did use the money to make multiple fan films. They simply didn’t complete them. That’s not a crime. If it were, then lock up the folks behind Captain Pike, Starship Equinox, Starship Farragut, and that other guy who moved to Georgia. 😉

          Cawley would have gotten his license with or without the engineering set completed. He already had 90% of the sets completed. And Engineering was mostly complete. Of the $60K raised, I doubt more than a few thousand went into the final coat of paint on the walls and consoles. Most of it went into “The Holiest Thing” (which was completed and released) and “Torment of Destiny” and “Bread and Savagery” (which weren’t). So yes, the money was used to make fan films…just not necessarily complete them. Building sets was a very small piece of what was done.

          I think your attempt to damn them for a single match stick is more of an effort to justify your anger and support a conclusion you’ve already reached, Mickey. It’s very Inspector Javert of you! 😉

  9. I’m a little late to the game here, but this is what kills me about Star Trek fandom: Someone is always telling me why something I like is garbage. I love Star Trek. I’ve seen all of the episodes of all of the series at least twice now. I’ve watched all of the movies. I enjoy them all. Inevitably, however, someone on forums will just rant and rail about how terrible This-Trek or That-Trek is and how only fools or idiots could like it. Why? Why do people have to be that way? If they don’t like something, that’s fine, but can’t they just say “I don’t like this because I find the plots too simplistic,” or “I don’t like the aesthetic,” or something similar? Why attack the people that like it? Why insist their subjective opinion is objective fact? It’s the reason that I very rarely post or interact on Trek forums. And I know that there are a lot of people who feel turned away for the same reasons. It’s sad that for a series that pushes the idea that humanity can overcome its foibles and unite together in the universe, and which celebrates the idea of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, its fanbase can be so divisive and mean sometimes.

    Anyway, I know this is not really going to change anyone’s minds, but I guess I just wish the world were a better place.

  10. I couldn’t agree more on Midnight Edge. It has become a predictable nuisance that on my Facebook page, in every discussion about Discovery, someone (and not necessarily always the same person) will post a Midnight Edge video. Usually with special focus on the “alternate license” under which the series is allegedly produced and which requires everything to be “25% different”. I found those statements to be be far-fetched re-interpretations of statements that were previously communicated. Midnight Edge does not disseminate definite falsehoods, but vast overstatements of little factoids on many occasions, mixed with actual facts.

    So what should I do? Ban the videos or the users posting them? No, because I would never ban anyone or anything unless it is illegal or definite harassment. As bothersome it is to always refute Midnight Edge-based theories, it belongs to a sound debate culture. And as much as I myself want some dirty details in those videos to be true, I stick to the facts even if it looks like I agree with outspoken fans of the series.

  11. We live in a world of fake news not just on little hobbyist websites like Midnight’s edge but major news outlets an ability to think critically is of little use when the other side of the issue is downplayed or simply not reported. There are dozens of examples such as a protest of disabled descending on parliament protesting the deaths caused by their policies. This received very little airtime on national news even though the figure was put at more than 100,000. Israel is painted as a villain and plucky little palestine the hero but only the deaths of of those underdogs are reported yet the constant rocket attacks or suicide bombers are not deemed newsworthy. The fact that in some countries women in Muslim countries are beaten and gangraped yet such news sneaks out only via Facebook in fact some countries women are jailed for being raped since they have had sex outside marriage. There was recently a case where one gentleman who lead an anti muslim movement was arrested tried convicted and in jail within 4 hours because even though he was filming in a public street he might of been breaking the terms of his parole. Which tinpot dictatorship carried this out was this well it was the UK. There was a case of a cabinet minister who was caught telling lies to parliament and resigned. Not from being a MP but from her job in the cabinet now a few months later she is back in the cabinet in a better job. Critical thinking cannot help if you only get half the facts only yesterday the Bank of England reported what an economic disaster Brexit would be did this lead to a run on the pound no people laughed at it and pointed out that said the same thing 18 months ago yet rather than going into a recession the UK Economy is growing. In a world where there is no accountability for lies, misreporting the facts or just leaving out half the story. A website like Midnight’s edge who mixes up rumours lies and facts in a nice little bundle is not only unimportant it is inevitable.

    1. Did you just use my Midnight’s Edge editorial to sneak in a comment about politics, Glenn? There’s lots of other blogs and Facebook groups out there for that. The issues you discuss are serious, to be sure, but this blog is not about global and social issues dealing with governing and community standards. I can’t blog about all of those AND fan films at the same time…so I’ve chosen fan films.

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